Replacing Fender Speakers - Does Fender System Have Crossover?

[George Ab]

Replacing Fender Speakers

Contemplating replacing my factory Fender speakers with a set of Focal component speakers. Do I need to use the Focal crossover or does the Fender system use a crossover (high pass to tweeters and low pass to mains) coming out of the amp? The reason I suspect that factory system does not have a crossover is the Soumatrix speakers which are a coaxial system go in place of the main door speaker. Would be quite problematic to bring wires out of the mains and route back through door up to tweeters.
Anyone have any experience concerning replacing component speakers?

 

[George Ab]

Think I found the answer here, decent MK7 door panel removal video also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8_b5DzFYT0

Yes, a 6.5 coaxial in the door will yield a full-range signal. Crossovers are built onto the factory speakers themselves, not through the head unit.

Might have to use crossover for main speaker and make or buy high pass filter for tweeter. Ours use a simple capacitor in series.

 

[aameghoo]

Do you think this is full range including the lows too? Wondering if I should tap this instead of the fender sub output for my sub

 

[George Ab]

This is interesting and harder then I thought it would be. Pulled some schematics and it gets hard quick for Fender system. For Fender there is dual voice coils on front speakers (don't know if 2 or 4 ohm each, I will measure later this week) separate inputs so I assume separate amps out and separate input (amp) for tweeter.

For rears Fender single voice coil, separate outputs from amp for bass and tweeter. Now I know why we need to move the fader to the rears so much to balance our Fender system.

For non-fender it is much easier, one output that simply divides for bass (which is single coil) and tweeter. You could put crossover input inline and then where it divides place outputs from crossover going to bass and tweeter. That was what I was hoping to do on fender as even have room in box next to amplifier under seat.

So right now I am thinking to stay component and upgrade speakers for Fender, you won't be able to bridge so you are going to lose a channel of amplification. I have to think on this, but ideally find a dual voice coil of same input impedance. Go into low pass filter to bass speaker (or don't filter at all), put 5KHz inline filter to tweeter. This is looking worse.

For rears for fender output to low pass filter (or don't filter at all) and 5KHz inline filter to tweeter.

I am going to do some sound dampening this week and will pull bass speaker and see if it has any inductors (low pass filter), likely all frequencies are passed to bass and a simple cap is inline with tweeter. I will also measure impedance. If that is the case, I could just use better speaker and do the same.

Input from someone who has been there done that would be most appreciated.

Edit: Removed speaker to do some acoustic treatment. Yes dual coil, 2 ohms for each coil. No passive filter components on speaker.

Interesting that Soumatrix direct replacement speakers work for both Fender and non-Fender so they must only use one of the amplifiers power outputs rather then two, hmmm.

 

[George Ab]

Do you think this is full range including the lows too? Wondering if I should tap this instead of the fender sub output for my sub

You want to tap the sub output for the sub as there will be significantly more power allocated to that. The sub is also a dual voice coil so you have an amp at each coil. Also the control in the head unit controls those lines.

 

[aameghoo]

You want to tap the sub output for the sub as there will be significantly more power allocated to that. The sub is also a dual voice coil so you have an amp at each coil. Also the control in the head unit controls those lines.

I'll actually be feeding it into an LC2i then to an amp then to my own sub so power isn't really an issue. Was mostly looking for the fullest signal since I've heard the amp cuts some lower frequencies to protect the speakers. I know the LC2i can recreate some of the signal especially rolloff too so I'm not too worried, plus maintaining HU sub control is definitely nice

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

 

[c31561]

Not sure if it is helpful, but in the event you want to bypass the Fender amp:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29694

 

[George Ab]

Not sure if it is helpful, but in the event you want to bypass the Fender amp:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29694

Thanks good information, just not going that route. Real happy wiht the Fender system just wanting to improve it.

Going to be tough to find a high quality dual coil 2 ohm 6.5" speakers; VW does things a bit strange. Got to think about the P=I2*R affects of going from a dual channel being driven by two separate channels to using one channel and a 4 ohm load. I may pick up a set of Focal and put in the rear to see the difference as that is driven by a single channel, and I assume 4 ohm load.

Treated the doors with anti-resonant treatment, dynamat and that improved the mid-bass.

 

[aameghoo]

Think I found the answer here, decent MK7 door panel removal video also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8_b5DzFYT0

Yes, a 6.5 coaxial in the door will yield a full-range signal. Crossovers are built onto the factory speakers themselves, not through the head unit.

Might have to use crossover for main speaker and make or buy high pass filter for tweeter. Ours use a simple capacitor in series.

George, 2 questions for you

1. Just to be sure, you're saying there are capacitors on the tweeters for high pass filtering and also a crossover built onto the mid speakers?
2. Do you remember the impedance of the mids, tweeters, and sub? I'm trying to figure out how I want to wire my system with the aftermarket amps. I know the doors are dual coil and I think I remember you saying it's 2ohm per coil, I think it might be the same for the sub at 2ohm per coill. I have no idea what the tweeters are though.

Just to give some perspective, I'm planning on doing an aftermarket Alpine i902D-G7 headunit with a 5 channel amp for the mids in the doors and fender sub, and then an old 4 channel amp I'll use for the tweeters. Depending on the impedance of the speakers, will determine what I need to wire in series vs parallel. Also I was thinking the speakers didn't have crossovers on them. I figured especially for the tweeters, I would have to put a 5kHz crossover like the Clarion MCD360 before the amp powering them. From your findings though, it seems like I'll be able to skip the crossover completely. While I'll probably upgrade the speakers too in the long run, this is my middle-ground in the meantime

 

[01LSi]

Thanks good information, just not going that route. Real happy wiht the Fender system just wanting to improve it.

Going to be tough to find a high quality dual coil 2 ohm 6.5" speakers; VW does things a bit strange. Got to think about the P=I2*R affects of going from a dual channel being driven by two separate channels to using one channel and a 4 ohm load. I may pick up a set of Focal and put in the rear to see the difference as that is driven by a single channel, and I assume 4 ohm load.

Treated the doors with anti-resonant treatment, dynamat and that improved the mid-bass.

Hi George,

Did you ever figure out how to wire an aftermarket single voice coil 4 ohm speaker to the OEM Fender amplifier properly? Do you use all four wires or only 2 of them?

I posted on DIYMA about it as well. Response I got was it would probably be ok to use all four wires into a single voice coil 4 ohm speaker ... https://www.diymobileaudio.com/thre...oad-is-the-amp-expecting.426860/#post-5805063

 

[George Ab]

Hi George,

Did you ever figure out how to wire an aftermarket single voice coil 4 ohm speaker to the OEM Fender amplifier properly? Do you use all four wires or only 2 of them?

I posted on DIYMA about it as well. Response I got was it would probably be ok to use all four wires into a single voice coil 4 ohm speaker ... https://www.diymobileaudio.com/thre...oad-is-the-amp-expecting.426860/#post-5805063

No I went a different route. I can tell you that the fender amplifier has a seperate amplifier for the tweeter and main speaker and the impedence of each is 2 ohms. I ripped out the fender amplifer and used an aftermarket amplifer with a crossovers for main and tweeter.

 

[quality_sound]

Hi George,

Did you ever figure out how to wire an aftermarket single voice coil 4 ohm speaker to the OEM Fender amplifier properly? Do you use all four wires or only 2 of them?

I posted on DIYMA about it as well. Response I got was it would probably be ok to use all four wires into a single voice coil 4 ohm speaker ... https://www.diymobileaudio.com/thre...oad-is-the-amp-expecting.426860/#post-5805063

Do NOT do this. I haven't been on DIYMA in a while, but if they're telling you this is ok, it's really gone downhill. The ONLY time it is acceptable to drive a single speaker with two amp channels is if it's a dual voice coil driver. The best option with Fender is to replace it all. The OEM speakers aren't bad, but the signal going to them is garbage.

 

[01LSi]

Do NOT do this. I haven't been on DIYMA in a while, but if they're telling you this is ok, it's really gone downhill. The ONLY time it is acceptable to drive a single speaker with two amp channels is if it's a dual voice coil driver. The best option with Fender is to replace it all. The OEM speakers aren't bad, but the signal going to them is garbage.

Is one pair of leads acceptable? Or are the 2 pairs also possibly electrically bridged inside the amp as well and I shouldn't do one set of leads either?

I ask because I'm planning to bust the doors open to sound deaden them very soon. While I'm there I wanted to swap the speaker out and not have to ever re open the door panel again.

I do have all the equipment ready to remove the Fender unit, but that part of the install won't happen until a bit later. I need a false floor where I can mount the new amps first. Gotta wait till the corona crap is over so I can have someone make that for me.

 

[quality_sound]

Yes, you can use just one set of leads. In the Fender system, it is two separate channels from the amp to the sub.

 

[Adurm]

Them back doors rattle like a mofo. You might even want to do the seatbelt pillar while you're there.