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Real-world gains offered by RSB and upgraded endlinks (long-term Mk7 test results inside)

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
If I were to write a long winded post about how I also have the same experience with running stock endlinks and a larger rear sway bar and then switching to moog endlinks and feeling zero performance “restoration” or “upgrades” call that TEST results as well?
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Sure, if that's your experience.

Man, some folks in peak turd mood today, eh? A case of the Mondays?
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Dude who is quantifying any of these things? Is that even possible? OP is just sharing his experience. And frankly it's pretty much inline with what other folks in the community have said for years: the stock endlinks are barely adequate and it's worth replacing them.
Nobody - so don't make a lengthy post making it to sound all scientifc and talking about proof, hypothesis, etc. when there is none. Disclaimer - I run aftermarket front/rear sway bars and aftermarket end links.
 
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El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
And frankly it's pretty much inline with what other folks in the community have said for years: the stock endlinks are barely adequate and it's worth replacing them.

Thats the funny thing about the modern VW community actually… things come in waves cause it’s ALOT of rinse and repeat of what they read on a forum or facebook.

3 years ago it was “stick with stock endlinks they are fine all the others make noise”. The moogs caught traction cause they are cheap and a “might as well” cause it theory they could be stronger than oem, but even that’s not actually tested it’s just a “metal must be stronger than composite” loose theory.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
If I were to write a long winded post about how I also have the same experience with running stock endlinks and a larger rear sway bar and then switching to moog endlinks and feeling zero performance “restoration” or “upgrades” call that TEST results as well?
Yes you can! It's the internet! I have aftermarket front/rear sways and end links. I don't understand really how the end links can impact/do much w/r to feel b/c they are just resisting compression, not side-to-side load. I replaced my rears with Moogs b/c "I was in there/greasable/cheap" and the fronts to have adjustable ones for managing preload.
 
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tigeo

Autocross Champion
Thats the funny thing about the modern VW community actually… things come in waves cause it’s ALOT of rinse and repeat of what they read on a forum or facebook.

3 years ago it was “stick with stock endlinks they are fine all the others make noise”. The moogs caught traction cause they are cheap and a “might as well” cause it theory they could be stronger than oem, but even that’s not actually tested it’s just a “metal must be stronger than composite” loose theory.
Even better is when folks actulaly do properly test things in this community controlling variables etc. and folks will argue that it's crap but if someone says "I did XYZ and it fixed ABC" with nothing more than that they repeat it adnauseum as gospel.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
1667222691466.png
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion

SPLR337

Go Kart Champion
Location
New York
Car(s)
2019/1997 GTI
I ran a 24mm H&R rear sway with Moog endlinks for a a while, it was the first thing I did when I got the car. It felt good but there was definitely something still missing. I did the Bilstein B8s with DG springs shortly after that, but recently I added the 26mm H&R front sway with a dead set kit and I am very happy with it now. I want to say I noticed the FSB in addition to the RSB more than I noticed the RSB and end links on their own.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I ran a 24mm H&R rear sway with Moog endlinks for a a while, it was the first thing I did when I got the car. It felt good but there was definitely something still missing. I did the Bilstein B8s with DG springs shortly after that, but recently I added the 26mm H&R front sway with a dead set kit and I am very happy with it now. I want to say I noticed the FSB in addition to the RSB more than I noticed the RSB and end links on their own.
I am in your camp. FSB seemed more noticeable when I did it and already had a RSB, springs/dampers, etc. There is a road with an uneven section with "bumps" that you drive between oblique to their axis if that makes sense....it's like getting rocked side to side on a roller coaster after the FSB...as in no seat belt my head would go through the side window!
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Yes you can! It's the internet! I have aftermarket front/rear sways and end links. I don't understand really how the end links can impact/do much w/r to feel b/c they are just resisting compression, not side-to-side load. I replaced my rears with Moogs b/c "I was in there/greasable/cheap" and the fronts to have adjustable ones for managing preload.
I have absolutely no dog in this silly endlink argument, but there is definitely lateral load (if you're taking turns hard, which is kinda the point of a RSB):

1667227374548.png
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I have absolutely no dog in this silly endlink argument, but there is definitely lateral load (if you're taking turns hard, which is kinda the point of a RSB):

View attachment 264279
Yeah I get it but it can't be too much as they are so thin you'd think they'd bend pretty easy/break if that was the case. Basically as I understand it/visualize it, as the car turns/chassis twists the bar is a spring resisting the force with one side pushing down forcing the other side up so the twist force is controlled by the brakets/bushings in your pic and the end links are just pushing/pulling in more or less veritcal plain.
 

manu97

Autocross Champion
Location
Chicago
Car(s)
MK7 R
I wonder how this could be tested. A slalom course maybe?
 

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
I have absolutely no dog in this silly endlink argument, but there is definitely lateral load (if you're taking turns hard, which is kinda the point of a RSB):

View attachment 264279
A lateral load that has a balljoint and and lower bushing that flex’s in that same lateral direction though. The sway bar it’s self is “twisting” to create results of a sway bar.

Reality is as you noted… one of the main gains to aftermarkets (if adjustable) is to remove any preload… outside of that only clear gain comes when you have worn endlinks joints or bushings.

I def. can attest to feeling a difference in a uneven preloaded front bar vs zero load as far as driver seat feel for the front bar though… I would do adjustable rears but most risk contact with my rear air springs from what I’ve seen.
 
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