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RacingLine Golf MK7 Oil Cooler

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
I'm seeing one of the manufacturers for radiators saying that their triple pass aluminum radiator will keep the oil temps around 250 tracking, due to the GTI having a water based oil cooler from the factory. They claim testing they saw 280's pre and 250's post install.

Does this claim make sense to anyone? Are coolant temps getting too high with stock single pass that it can't cool the oil? I don't think we'd really know, because the factory water temp gauge is pretty inaccurate from what I understand.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
CSF Radiator

I'm seeing one of the manufacturers for radiators saying that their triple pass aluminum radiator will keep the oil temps around 250 tracking, due to the GTI having a water based oil cooler from the factory. They claim testing they saw 280's pre and 250's post install.

Does this claim make sense to anyone? Are coolant temps getting too high with stock single pass that it can't cool the oil? I don't think we'd really know, because the factory water temp gauge is pretty inaccurate from what I understand.

I believe you are referring to CSF’s MQB Radiator. A larger capacity heat exchanger will definitely increase the cooling systems ability to reject heat and maintain the target coolant temp under track conditions with high ambient temps definitely overloads the stock Radiator.

Not sure that translates to 30-degree cooler oil temps. Is the cooling thermostat on our cars electronic vs. mechanical? Meaning can they be programmed to open a little earlier?
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I believe you are referring to CSF’s MQB Radiator. A larger capacity heat exchanger will definitely increase the cooling systems ability to reject heat and maintain the target coolant temp under track conditions with high ambient temps definitely overloads the stock Radiator.

Not sure that translates to 30-degree cooler oil temps. Is the cooling thermostat on our cars electronic vs. mechanical? Meaning can they be programmed to open a little earlier?

I'm not sure if it's electronic or mechanical, but if I had to guess I'd say electronic, since everything else pretty much is too. I doubt it's easily programmable, though, as most of the system is just a Bosch registry. There would have to be a separate need for a different temp on the same ecu to have a registry value available. Possibly a diesel variant, but that would likely be a higher temp option vs gasoline.

I'm curious if the larger radiator would make it more difficult to get the car up to temp and maintain temp during the colder months? I really doubt a larger radiator translates into a 30 degree drop. That sounds like marketing magic to me, like "testing on the same day" by testing at 3pm and 11pm...

Im waiting until a weekend at the end of the month to see how much the oil cooler affects my track oil and water temps. Something tells me water may actually run quite a bit cooler even with oil only being 15 or so degrees cooler due to how much more active oil is in the lubrication and surface cooling role. I went to the track this past weekend but couldn't really lean on the car due to traffic and some speed limit rules (historic track around a lake). Sadly my tires didn't squeal more than twice :(.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Im waiting until a weekend at the end of the month to see how much the oil cooler affects my track oil and water temps. Something tells me water may actually run quite a bit cooler even with oil only being 15 or so degrees cooler due to how much more active oil is in the lubrication and surface cooling role. I went to the track this past weekend but couldn't really lean on the car due to traffic and some speed limit rules (historic track around a lake). Sadly my tires didn't squeal more than twice :(.

Okay, so as promised, here's a follow up after having a chance to lean on the car more. So it was a bit colder than the last time i took the car out this year (60* vs 90*), but it was another 15 degrees colder last year during the same time so I can compare to that. With the oil cooler (with just the ten row core), i was able to stay under 275* all day, where before I'd start to touch 295* 15 mins in. During the majority of the sessions I was 260 and under. The car made power all the time, except for a few instances where I'd flood the PCV due to the hard right after the big straight on this course, and interestingly enough, because it didn't retard timing as much, there was less overall fuel being used! I was able to get 3 20 minute sessions in on one tank of gas vs running 2 sessions before! This equates to about 6.75 mpg vs 4.5 mpg on track. I still think this core size would be fine for a stock car, but for stage 1 and 2 cars I'd think a 16 row would be much more applicable. For stage 2 and 3 (is38), I think a 19 row is likely a better option, especially in hotter areas.

Changing the filter is still stupid and requires covering the whole filter areas with rags and shop towels, then cleaning with an engine degreaser afterwards, unless you use the 50$ racingline filter cartridges.

Here's a youtube video from inside a friend's e92 m3 from a good hot session that day.

You can see my PCV floods twice and the car blows smoke. That section of the track i've data logged with peak G in the 1.2+ range.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Okay, so as promised, here's a follow up after having a chance to lean on the car more. So it was a bit colder than the last time i took the car out this year (60* vs 90*), but it was another 15 degrees colder last year during the same time so I can compare to that. With the oil cooler (with just the ten row core), i was able to stay under 275* all day, where before I'd start to touch 295* 15 mins in. During the majority of the sessions I was 260 and under. The car made power all the time, except for a few instances where I'd flood the PCV due to the hard right after the big straight on this course, and interestingly enough, because it didn't retard timing as much, there was less overall fuel being used! I was able to get 3 20 minute sessions in on one tank of gas vs running 2 sessions before! This equates to about 6.75 mpg vs 4.5 mpg on track. I still think this core size would be fine for a stock car, but for stage 1 and 2 cars I'd think a 16 row would be much more applicable. For stage 2 and 3 (is38), I think a 19 row is likely a better option, especially in hotter areas.

Changing the filter is still stupid and requires covering the whole filter areas with rags and shop towels, then cleaning with an engine degreaser afterwards, unless you use the 50$ racingline filter cartridges.

Here's a youtube video from inside a friend's e92 m3 from a good hot session that day.

You can see my PCV floods twice and the car blows smoke. That section of the track i've data logged with peak G in the 1.2+ range.

Are you using a catch can? Anyway to keep PCV from flooding?
 

nasae30

New member
Location
Richmond va
No catch can currently. A catch can is more of a bandaid for the issue rather than a fix. A baffled oil pan is a better approach. That's on my agenda for winter.
Are you going with the iABED pan or something else? I can't find much real world data on it. I like the idea of solving several issues at once. Even if its expensive.
 

donefor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
usa
No catch can currently. A catch can is more of a bandaid for the issue rather than a fix. A baffled oil pan is a better approach. That's on my agenda for winter.

Baffled oil pan won't help with the smoking which comes from the oil separator dumping its contents into the intake manifold.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Baffled oil pan won't help with the smoking which comes from the oil separator dumping its contents into the intake manifold.
I can't claim to be an expert on this topic since it was described to me by an engineer, but from my understanding it's the oil sloshing around in the oil pan that hits the pcv when trail braking into hard right corners that causes the factory system to get overwhelmed and dump "engine juice" into the intake.

A few of the Porsche guys I've been on track with and a lot of the racers I've spoken with have all mentioned the oil pan is a more appropriate fix. The catch can will help keep your engine from sucking and burning, but it's just another thing where the excess gets dumped into and you still have to top off oil. The baffled pan should, in theory, keep the oil where it needs to be and provide a long term solution without topping off oil twice a day trackside.
 

nasae30

New member
Location
Richmond va
Since we have the Factory built TCR race cars, which have solved the issue. One would think to just copy exactly what they have done. They are faster and will generate more G's than we can ever hope to. Whos got a connection at FCP or VW Motorsport?
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I’m interested in the outcome of this discussion On baffled oil pans. I run one on my mini. More of a baffled oil pickup. Surprised that the topic hasn’t really come up in the track section For the Mk7’s. Was planning to ask this very question in my track thread. Especially for folks running slicks. Heck at 1.2g braking and cornering on good street tires or R - comps, that enough to start causing issues in longer radius turns.

It will be good to know what the TCR cars have done to combat this.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
So my first thought was "I'm sure the TCR is a dry sump", but then i started looking over the spec sheet and it's actually a wet sump. FCP always seems to be information friendly, so I'll send them an email sometime today and ask for their thoughts.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
So my first thought was "I'm sure the TCR is a dry sump", but then i started looking over the spec sheet and it's actually a wet sump. FCP always seems to be information friendly, so I'll send them an email sometime today and ask for their thoughts.

So I spoke with FCP. They said that the TCR racecar has a reworked PCV that eliminates the flooding issue, and mentioned that's one option of solving the issue (not sure how i would be able to get my hands on that PCV...) They also recommended either the 034 catch can (full pcv replacement - which i'm not totally onboard with) or a baffled oilpan as other options to resolve the issue. The baffled oil pan will likely be my first step, and if some oil still finds a way to creep into the PCV, I'll probably include an inline catch can like the Burger one.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I already have the racing line catch can.

iAbed appears to have the better baffled oil pan. ISweep, ECS have alternate oil pans but they are not baffled well in my opinion. Not aware of any other options.
 
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