Powerrr questions

[1L19]

Now that I've got my tint and wheels sorted it's time to consider some performance mods. The only thing I care about is horsepower. I'm not making any kind of suspension modifications or other cosmetic changes. Currently I'd only make mods to increase power and after that perhaps some sort of brake upgrade. Finally I do not care, at all, about noise. Any changes that are strictly for noise I would avoid.

Anyway I've done some reading, come from the point of knowing nothing, and it seems that the four things I read about the most are intercooler, cold air intake, exhaust and a tune. I've also read back and forth about how none of these things really affect performance. Say a cold air intake. Some folks say you get from 5 to 12 hp bump, other say an CAI does absolutely nothing to boost power and it's just for noise. The third voice I hear is that a CAI upgrade only boosts power with a tune. Based on all that I have some questions:

1. Is there any appreciable boost in power from changing the CAI, Intercooler or Exhaust if you don't put on a tune?
2. If I were going to perform only one change to boost power which would it be?
3. With a change of all four components with moderately priced parts what sort of general, overall boost in power might I see?

So just to summarize. Other than the brakes I'm only interest in mods that boost power. If it doesn't boost power I'm not interested...yet. If I've missed anything major (likely) I'd love some education.

Thank you!

 

[Acadia18]

Out of those 4, the only one which will add any meaningful power boost is a tune. An intercooler is helpful to let you keep the power you currently have and not lose it to heat soak, but it doesn't "add" any power.

 

[JC_451]

Alright got this one wrapped up.

Nice work @Acadia18

 

[1L19]

Out of those 4, the only one which will add any meaningful power boost is a tune. An intercooler is helpful to let you keep the power you currently have and not lose it to heat soak, but it doesn't "add" any power.

Thank you very much. So if I do the tune and get X hp boost will that boost go up adding any of the other 3 items (the work together thing) or is it just a situation where a tune gives just as much of a boost with stock parts (the other 3) as aftermarket?

 

[1L19]

Alright got this one wrapped up.

Nice work @Acadia18

If you don't want to be bothered by routine questions you don't have to read the thread you know. Just a suggestion to alleviate your frustration.

 

[JC_451]

If you don't want to be bothered by routine questions you don't have to read the thread you know. Just a suggestion to alleviate your frustration.

I'm just messing around bro.

Only a tune will add substantial power gains. Those other items are seasoning, the tune is the steak.

 

[1L19]

I'm just messing around bro.

Only a tune will add substantial power gains. Those other items are seasoning, the tune is the steak.

My apologies sir. I misread it. My fault and thank you for the information. Really. I need it.

 

[NopeR]

Get a Jb4 (if you care about your warranty) or get a flashed stg1 ecu and dsg tune (if applicable - this will void your powertrain warranty). That will give you the best power boost by far compared to doing anything else.

Changing the Intake won't do shit but make noise, same thing with a catback exhaust... Debtably, our cars sound like shit anyway.

Intercooler is good for power consistency, but won't realistically add more power.

 

[1L19]

Get a Jb4 (if you care about your warranty) or get a flashed stg1 ecu and dsg tune (if applicable - this will void your powertrain warranty). That will give you the best power boost by far compared to doing anything else.

Changing the Intake won't do shit but make noise, same thing with a catback exhaust... Debtably, our cars sound like shit anyway.

Intercooler is good for power consistency, but won't realistically add more power.

Man @impulsive.ca you are like.. stalking me with good answers. So my mkii is a 2017 and has no more standard warranty and only 5k left on the powertrain warranty so I'm up for considering option b.

Until you just made this comment I thought stage 1 (2 and 3) describe a general level of tune/outfitting rather than a specific set of ECU instructions (maybe it isn't). I mean my knowledge is lacking but to me an ECU works like a bios on a PC and when you are flashing it you basically just setting bios options to do this or that. Again my understanding may be off.

So when you said "get a flashed stg1 ecu" I'm thinking does he mean an aftermarket ecu that's been flashed with some sort of "stage 1" bundle of changes? Am I understanding this right?

If I am then another question would be does the jbl tune require the flashed stage1 ecu? I didn't pick up if it was a dependency or two different actions that are both beneficial.

Thank you sir!

 

[Acadia18]

Until you just made this comment I thought stage 1 (2 and 3) describe a general level of tune/outfitting rather than a specific set of ECU instructions (maybe it isn't). I mean my knowledge is lacking but to me an ECU works like a bios on a PC and when you are flashing it you basically just setting bios options to do this or that.

It's kind of both. In the simplest of terms (and there are many, many more factors than just this), your ECU from the factory has presets for what it should command the car to do. "At 4,000 RPMs, push 15psi of boost." An ECU tune overwrites those. "Nah fam, at 4,000 RPMs, push 25psi of boost!"

Like I said, there's much more factors than that, but that's the general gist of it. Stage 1/2/3 come in because the more changes you make to the hardware of the car, allows you to have the software do different things. The absolute largest jump is from no tune to a Stage 1 tune. Diminishing returns hit fast.

So when you said "get a flashed stg1 ecu" I'm thinking does he mean an aftermarket ecu that's been flashed with some sort of "stage 1" bundle of changes? Am I understanding this right?

Nah, he just means flashing your own ECU. Theoretically I guess you could get a spare ECU, have the dealer program it to the car and set it up right, then flash that, but your adding an incredible unnecessary cost.

If I am then another question would be does the jbl tune require the flashed stage1 ecu? I didn't pick up if it was a dependency or two different actions that are both beneficial.

Different actions that are beneficial in a similar manner. A JB4 plus into your car at various places. Your ECU still has the same set of instructions as from the factory, but when it sends out that "Ok, at 4,000 RPMs make 15psi of boost!" message, the JB4 intercepts it and changes it, so when the message is received by the turbo, it reads "Ok, at 4,000 RPMs make 15psi 20psi of boost!" Because of that way it functions, it has much less control over what it can tell the car to do, than just re-writing the instructions on the ECU (flashing it). Because the ECU stays unmodified, it is usually deemed "safer" in regards to warranty work. If you remove it, it won't be immediately known by a dealer that it was ever there. Whereas when you flash your ECU, even if you flash back, they'll know immediately it was changed the moment they plug it into their computers.

 

[1L19]

It's kind of both. In the simplest of terms (and there are many, many more factors than just this), your ECU from the factory has presets for what it should command the car to do. "At 4,000 RPMs, push 15psi of boost." An ECU tune overwrites those. "Nah fam, at 4,000 RPMs, push 25psi of boost!"

Like I said, there's much more factors than that, but that's the general gist of it. Stage 1/2/3 come in because the more changes you make to the hardware of the car, allows you to have the software do different things. The absolute largest jump is from no tune to a Stage 1 tune. Diminishing returns hit fast.



Nah, he just means flashing your own ECU. Theoretically I guess you could get a spare ECU, have the dealer program it to the car and set it up right, then flash that, but your adding an incredible unnecessary cost.



Different actions that are beneficial in a similar manner. A JB4 plus into your car at various places. Your ECU still has the same set of instructions as from the factory, but when it sends out that "Ok, at 4,000 RPMs make 15psi of boost!" message, the JB4 intercepts it and changes it, so when the message is received by the turbo, it reads "Ok, at 4,000 RPMs make 15psi 20psi of boost!" Because of that way it functions, it has much less control over what it can tell the car to do, than just re-writing the instructions on the ECU (flashing it). Because the ECU stays unmodified, it is usually deemed "safer" in regards to warranty work. If you remove it, it won't be immediately known by a dealer that it was ever there. Whereas when you flash your ECU, even if you flash back, they'll know immediately it was changed the moment they plug it into their computers.

Ok so that was great. The big one was learning that JB4 was a piece of hardware rather than some type/brand of ECU tune. I'm sure that's laughable to vets but I had no idea. Additionally once you clued me it makes perfect sense with regard to how it works and why it's not an immediate warranty killer.

What I still don't understand is the definition of stage 1, 3 and 3 tuning. Especially if it's a fixed definition or a standard or something. I mean stage 1 (to me at this point) could be a specific set of instruction and everyone who has a stage 1 tune has the exact same instructions flashed in. It could also be a standard as in these types of tunes are stage 1 and these are stage 2. It could also mean the individual instructions so a stage 1 tune is a dynamic bundle of "stage 1" instructions. Anyway I'm sure I'll get it once I fill in the blanks.

@Acadia18 thank you very much. That was very informative and quite helpful.

 

[Acadia18]

It's not "fixed" in the sense that it can mean different things to each tuner, based on how their tune interacts with the car. A pretty loose consensus is that your average stage 1 tune can be flashed on a car with little to no modifications. The car's hardware will support the instructions the software modifications tell the car to make.

Again, while a loose consensus, a stage two tune is usually considered to require a downpipe, and some sort of intake modification. Even if it's just a swapping in a high flow filter, and removing the snow guard. But those changes allow more air to flow in, and more exhaust gases to flow freely out, which means you can now run software that will push the car harder, creating more power. However, without that software, the hardware mods alone will generate little to no increase in power.


General consensus, yada yada yada, but a stage 3 tune is usually considered when you change the turbo, and that hardware change can allow you to push the car even harder, generating even more power.

There are guys around here who could come in and explain it in much more technical detail than I could, but this is just a very high level, "I'm explaining it to a baby" explanation. And I don't mean that in a rude way

 

[1L19]

It's not "fixed" in the sense that it can mean different things to each tuner, based on how their tune interacts with the car. A pretty loose consensus is that your average stage 1 tune can be flashed on a car with little to no modifications. The car's hardware will support the instructions the software modifications tell the car to make.

Again, while a loose consensus, a stage two tune is usually considered to require a downpipe, and some sort of intake modification. Even if it's just a swapping in a high flow filter, and removing the snow guard. But those changes allow more air to flow in, and more exhaust gases to flow freely out, which means you can now run software that will push the car harder, creating more power. However, without that software, the hardware mods alone will generate little to no increase in power.


General consensus, yada yada yada, but a stage 3 tune is usually considered when you change the turbo, and that hardware change can allow you to push the car even harder, generating even more power.

There are guys around here who could come in and explain it in much more technical detail than I could, but this is just a very high level, "I'm explaining it to a baby" explanation. And I don't mean that in a rude way

Laugh I think you've got it spot on AND your explanation was quite clear and I now understand it much better. How is a tune loaded? I mean if I'm not using a JB4 (check me out with the lingo!)? Does it have to be at a shop? Can you buy them via the net and then load them yourself with a tool?

 

[jimlloyd40]

Laugh I think you've got it spot on AND your explanation was quite clear and I now understand it much better. How is a tune loaded? I mean if I'm not using a JB4 (check me out with the lingo!)? Does it have to be at a shop? Can you buy them via the net and then load them yourself with a tool?

If you get a Cobb AP you load the tunes yourself from anywhere.

 

[1L19]

If you get a Cobb AP you load the tunes yourself from anywhere.

That looks ridiculous and I just peeped the site but didn't see this right away. How's it make the connection? Bluetooth via your phone? Very interesting. Thank you sir!