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Post your experiences: 034 Motorsports Locking collar kit for MQB, or TyrolSport Deadset

Mr. Conundrum

Go Kart Champion
Location
North Carolina
Car(s)
2017 GTI Autobahn
I have the CTS kit, literally the same thing as the new EQT one. It's fine, does what it's supposed to do. Maybe the stock brackets are designed to crumple, but I doubt changing them is going to make the subframe somehow get pushed up into the footwell.

Tyrolsport will pay for itself if you drop the subframe regularly and change bolts every time. Wouldn't be hard to figure out your own re-usable hardware though.

If you want to save some money, buy from the cts/eqt supplier directly:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832823653270.html
Yeah, I'm not that concerned about changing the brackets either, it's just something I thought about after watching Munro Live's chassis breakdowns on YT. Any of the cheap ones are functionally the same as Tyrol, but Jake's "Buy Once, Cry Once" motto has been getting to me 😆.
 

crxgator

Autocross Champion
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
All the MQBs
I for some reason remember trying to look up the ARP bolts based on the VW specs and they weren’t available for purchase. I think Tyrol sport has one that only they can order.
 

ChristopherNeil

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Diego
Car(s)
MK7 GTI
I have the CTS kit, literally the same thing as the new EQT one. It's fine, does what it's supposed to do. Maybe the stock brackets are designed to crumple, but I doubt changing them is going to make the subframe somehow get pushed up into the footwell
I have this as well and I was able to get perfect alignment afterward. Coupled with whiteline LCA/ball joints and 034 upper camber plates
 

Pabo

New member
Location
Germany
Car(s)
Clubsport GTI
Did you all had relatively even camber value's from side to side after using the inserts. Got the 034 here but I'm concerned of having uneven camber values after installing it. Shifting the subframe to same camber values from side to side won't be possible
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Did you all had relatively even camber value's from side to side after using the inserts. Got the 034 here but I'm concerned of having uneven camber values after installing it. Shifting the subframe to same camber values from side to side won't be possible
Mine were off by about .1deg after installing inserts, without any added camber adjustment.
 

Pabo

New member
Location
Germany
Car(s)
Clubsport GTI
You was telling me that at the subframe thread. 10 minutes off is really good, but is it all the time like this or were you just lucky.
Only wrote from one guy that his camber was way off.
Maybe someone else will share his alignment specs after install.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
You was telling me that at the subframe thread. 10 minutes off is really good, but is it all the time like this or were you just lucky.
Only wrote from one guy that his camber was way off.
Maybe someone else will share his alignment specs after install.
unless someone has measured your car, i don't see why it would help
 

Pabo

New member
Location
Germany
Car(s)
Clubsport GTI
It will help people and me to find out if the kit is worth the money and installation time. For me this kit makes only sense if it will really centers the subframe, so that a good alignment will be achieved, but not many talking about it.
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
It will help people and me to find out if the kit is worth the money and installation time. For me this kit makes only sense if it will really centers the subframe, so that a good alignment will be achieved, but not many talking about it.

It's going to vary from car to car. By how much? Probably not a ton. If you're able to get it within 0.1 deg camber left vs right you're doing pretty damn good.

I have a ton of measurements that I took a while back when attempting to model the suspension (which I've been procrastinating on as it's low on my priority list right now)... but based on some quick back-of-the-napkin math, shifting the subframe should net approximately a 0.1 deg change on BOTH sides (lower on one, higher on the other) for every mm you shift it left vs right. I'm guessing there's *maybe* 2mm of play total on most cars when you take into account that not all 4 bolt holes are going to 100% perfectly line up with the holes in the chassis, which will eat into some usable wiggle-room.

I think the subframe collars are snake oil for what they're advertised as (better handling because they're perfectly centering your subframe and making it more "rigid" or whatever), but I don't doubt they can make removing and reinstalling more consistent if you're doing that often, but alignment (at least toe) should still be checked/verified when done.

If you're paying someone else to do the work - then I'd skip the collars and just make sure they take the time to verify everything is square and do the final 180 deg portion of the torque sequence on an alignment rack.


Also most people don't understand that on an alignment rack - you can pull the car right off, and immediately right back on and get a slight variance in readings. Hell, the way the alignment tech pulls the car on will have an effect as well. It's shockingly common for some techs to not pull the rear locking pins on the slip plates causing the rear to bind up. Plus the way the tech installs the alignment heads to the wheels followed by performing the rolling compensation will affect things as well. Even a $100k alignment machine won't make up for the lazy or complacent operator. Also alignment machines being out of whack and having some tilt in them is also hugely common. all it takes is leaving the chassis jacks in the down position once while lower the entire rack to ruin the levelness of the entire thing. Or idiots to hold the alignment heads wrong. Or drop them off the car 5ft to the ground because they didn't use the safety loops through the wheel spokes after clamping down on the rim edge.

I can't say I have direct experience with the locking collars (though a trusted friend and VW tech tried them on his MK5, and he could not get the alignment right so removed them)... I'm just saying that people who claim their subframe are shifting are probably either at fault themselves (reusing hardware, improperly torqued, or reinstalling the subframe with the chassis "twisted" on jack stands causing the subframe to be in a slight "bind" after it's been fully torqued and then dropped onto the ground.... OR they're going to different alignment places, on different racks, or two technicians who have different or inconsistent procedures, or didn't set the tire pressures prior, etc. etc. and the list goes on.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
It's going to vary from car to car. By how much? Probably not a ton. If you're able to get it within 0.1 deg camber left vs right you're doing pretty damn good.

I have a ton of measurements that I took a while back when attempting to model the suspension (which I've been procrastinating on as it's low on my priority list right now)... but based on some quick back-of-the-napkin math, shifting the subframe should net approximately a 0.1 deg change on BOTH sides (lower on one, higher on the other) for every mm you shift it left vs right. I'm guessing there's *maybe* 2mm of play total on most cars when you take into account that not all 4 bolt holes are going to 100% perfectly line up with the holes in the chassis, which will eat into some usable wiggle-room.

I think the subframe collars are snake oil for what they're advertised as (better handling because they're perfectly centering your subframe and making it more "rigid" or whatever), but I don't doubt they can make removing and reinstalling more consistent if you're doing that often, but alignment (at least toe) should still be checked/verified when done.

I can't say I have direct experience with the locking collars (though a trusted friend and VW tech tried them on his MK5, and he could not get the alignment right so removed them)... I'm just saying that people who claim their subframe are shifting are probably either at fault themselves (reusing hardware, improperly torqued, or reinstalling the subframe with the chassis "twisted" on jack stands causing the subframe to be in a slight "bind" after it's been fully torqued and then dropped onto the ground.... OR they're going to different alignment places, on different racks, or two technicians who have different or inconsistent procedures, or didn't set the tire pressures prior, etc. etc. and the list goes on.

It might have been placebo but I swore I could feel the original steel subframe shift in certain scenarios. My thinking was if they see fit to put locking washers on the aluminum subframe, there's at least some factory concerns with it moving even with properly torqued bolts. And those locations on the steel subframe don't look like they'd self-lock in any meaningful way.

If you're following the service manual to the letter, there's a procedure for locking the subframe's location with pins when dropping it, though this is a step I'm sure most flat-rate guys will skip. And the service manual says a 30 minute difference in camber side to side is within spec, so take that for what it's worth.

As for consistency, I've had to get toe adjusted every time my subframe has been dropped (4-5 times now). It's a little simpler to tell the alignment shop "front adjustment is toe-only, subframe can't be shifted" than have someone who thinks they know something loosen up the subframe and throw some ugga duggas at $60 in one-time-use bolts.

As an aside, I might not bother with the aluminum subframe if I were starting over. You (or your shop) have to remember to buy different bolts, steel felt a lot safer to use as a jack point, and if you really care about a few pounds of weight on the bottom of the car, just go straight to the verkline subframe.

All that said, I know that before I added adjustable crap, I was within 6 minutes side to side and I'd be surprised if it was off by more than twice that on any undamaged car.
 

Pabo

New member
Location
Germany
Car(s)
Clubsport GTI
The VW alignment pins will only work if you reinstall your dropped subframe back in. Think they will hold the old subframe position, but don't center the subframe like a deadset kit so your subframe has to be aligned correct bevor dropping it.
For me it wouldn't work because I will switch to the aluminum subframe and this has other hole sizes and my camber is actually of by 0.25 from factory.
The only advantage of the deadset kit is to install the subframe nearly perfekt, without asking a shop to center the subframe and even the camber. I know a few shops who can do my alignment after installing the subframe but they aren't able to center the subframe.
So that's why I'm asking how good the alignment specs especially camber value's would/could be after installing the kit.
Otherwise I would rather looking to find a shop who can do the subframe alignment Next problem would be ,I need a second pair of new subframe bolts ,because I have to tighten it down after install and the alignment shop need to remove those to center the subframe. Think they are one time use
 

GoatAutomotive

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Georgetown, TX
Car(s)
2017 VW GTI SE, DSG
It's going to vary from car to car. By how much? Probably not a ton. If you're able to get it within 0.1 deg camber left vs right you're doing pretty damn good.

I have a ton of measurements that I took a while back when attempting to model the suspension (which I've been procrastinating on as it's low on my priority list right now)... but based on some quick back-of-the-napkin math, shifting the subframe should net approximately a 0.1 deg change on BOTH sides (lower on one, higher on the other) for every mm you shift it left vs right. I'm guessing there's *maybe* 2mm of play total on most cars when you take into account that not all 4 bolt holes are going to 100% perfectly line up with the holes in the chassis, which will eat into some usable wiggle-room.

I think the subframe collars are snake oil for what they're advertised as (better handling because they're perfectly centering your subframe and making it more "rigid" or whatever), but I don't doubt they can make removing and reinstalling more consistent if you're doing that often, but alignment (at least toe) should still be checked/verified when done.

If you're paying someone else to do the work - then I'd skip the collars and just make sure they take the time to verify everything is square and do the final 180 deg portion of the torque sequence on an alignment rack.


Also most people don't understand that on an alignment rack - you can pull the car right off, and immediately right back on and get a slight variance in readings. Hell, the way the alignment tech pulls the car on will have an effect as well. It's shockingly common for some techs to not pull the rear locking pins on the slip plates causing the rear to bind up. Plus the way the tech installs the alignment heads to the wheels followed by performing the rolling compensation will affect things as well. Even a $100k alignment machine won't make up for the lazy or complacent operator. Also alignment machines being out of whack and having some tilt in them is also hugely common. all it takes is leaving the chassis jacks in the down position once while lower the entire rack to ruin the levelness of the entire thing. Or idiots to hold the alignment heads wrong. Or drop them off the car 5ft to the ground because they didn't use the safety loops through the wheel spokes after clamping down on the rim edge.

I can't say I have direct experience with the locking collars (though a trusted friend and VW tech tried them on his MK5, and he could not get the alignment right so removed them)... I'm just saying that people who claim their subframe are shifting are probably either at fault themselves (reusing hardware, improperly torqued, or reinstalling the subframe with the chassis "twisted" on jack stands causing the subframe to be in a slight "bind" after it's been fully torqued and then dropped onto the ground.... OR they're going to different alignment places, on different racks, or two technicians who have different or inconsistent procedures, or didn't set the tire pressures prior, etc. etc. and the list goes on.
VOUCH. Career auto worker of 21yrs. Nothing can f*** up an alignment or diagnosis faster than a lazy tech not paying attention or giving a damn... 👀 😖
 

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
For me the collars front and rear are necessary, lol
IMG_6292.jpeg

IMG_6293.jpeg

IMG_6294.jpeg

Without it I was forced to have camber uneven about 3/4 to 1 degree or run uneven spacing on the wheels to have a visible left / right fitment.

But I just have the cheap collars - I def. Don’t think those high price billet brackets do anything other that add hidden bling from a measurable return… sure it’s replacing stamped steel but also those steel pieces have rolled edges around the entire perimeter.
 
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