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Performance Package?

ZERO815

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I‘m wondering why the bean counters took the trunk carpet out on certain years but kept the VAQ
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heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
To me the biggest worthwhile difference is the LSD and big brakes... But mostly the LSD. I had a 2015 SE non PP and now I have a 2019 Autobahn with PP. I can 100% feel the difference the LSD makes in daily driving when I get a little spicy. And the bigger brakes do make a difference as well, I have pushed them harder than I probably should have.
Yep, I love how you can feel the LSD in spirited driving. The bigger brakes are nice too. I find myself braking later when driving in traffic. Just the right amount of bite. Only down side is I will most likely wear them out sooner since I do brake late and they are a bit expensive to replace. But definitely worth it for a daily in regular city traffic. I've read they can be underwhelming at the track with repeated runs. But probably better than most standard brakes on most sub $40K cars.

I also feel like the LSD is helpful driving in snow too. Seems to be more stable making a turns. I have a bit more confidence in inclement weather with the LSD

I see Golf Dave is still making his points about the LSD...yada, yada, yada..........some things never change..;)
 

xabhax

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Manchester Township, New Jersey
Car(s)
15 GTI
I can see the mk8 lasting until 2029-30 if the mk7 lasted 8 years (2013-2021), possible 8.5 around
According to vw, 2026 will be the last year of cars they produce with combustion engines. Would anyone buy a gti ev?
 

mrmattolsen

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2015 GTI DSG
According to vw, 2026 will be the last year of cars they produce with combustion engines. Would anyone buy a gti ev?
That's impossible to answer without knowing literally any details. I would consider buying any car that is good. The industry is really starting to kick ass with EV's so I have pretty high confidence it would be a good car.
 

TheJokker

Go Kart Newbie
Location
jacksonville
If the VAQ is so wonderful for race (as you claim) why did the MQB platform TCR race cars ditch it after only 1yr (only built for the 2015-2016 season)??...

Current spec sheet for the TCR cars...all have:- Differential: multi-plate limited slip differential
https://www.tcr-series.com/homologated-cars/item/volkswagen-golf-gti-tcr-dsg


The Clubsport that set the 'ring laptime had no rear seats, no air con, no sat nav, lightweight battery, manual gearbox, 3 door body, lightweight wing back front seats, semi slick Michelins, "Golf R engine" (265PS with boost to 290PS), & EU unladen weight of 1,285kg....

& Benjamin Leuchter who drove the car weighs circa 60kg...

By comparison a normal GTI-PP (in UK spec as per the Clubsport weight stated above) can weight anything from 1,382kg for a 3door manual to 1,432kg for a 5door DSG & only has 230PS...

& the average GTI-PP driver weighs???...


Basically a normal GTI-PP is 97kg to 147kg heavier by comparison & has 35PS to 60PS less power...All of which will seriously alter the handling, & the acceleration times...

Remove loads of trim & air con from any car, & add more negative camber, add more optimised aero, fit semi slicks, tweek the software, tweek the dampers/springs, fit a more powerful engine & it will go faster around the 'ring.....its NOT solely the VAQ unit....otherwise there would not be such a big difference in the spec of a normal GTI-PP & the one that set the laptime...
Actually they (TCR racers) ditched the whole transmission to save weight...
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/heres-what-the-hoonigan-hoonicorn-formula-e-and-our-vw-tcr-have-in-common

The Wavetrac is a fine LSD and for some the only option. The Clubsport S "proves" you can build a very fast car around the VAQ despite your insinuations to the contrary. Pretending it is not a LSD solution is a red flag you are not the subject expert you assume you are...
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
Location
Massachusetts
Car(s)
MK7.5 GTI
Actually they (TCR racers) ditched the whole transmission to save weight...
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/heres-what-the-hoonigan-hoonicorn-formula-e-and-our-vw-tcr-have-in-common

The Wavetrac is a fine LSD and for some the only option. The Clubsport S "proves" you can build a very fast car around the VAQ despite your insinuations to the contrary. Pretending it is not a LSD solution is a red flag you are not the subject expert you assume you are...

..........He mentioned the sequential already?

For starters The Seat Leon Cup Racer TCR Race cars were launched only with the DSG & the VAQ unit in 2015. Then from 2016 they offered the Sadev sequential gearbox with a mechanical LSD as an upgrade package or full new build. Quote from 2016 brochure:- “For the TCR series the car receives a new lighter & more individually adaptable transmission”. Basically, the racers wanted a sequential gearbox & a mechanical LSD. Thus, a lighter car (40kg less than DSG/VAQ for 2017) & more adjustment to suit driver & total predictability of the LSD, compared to the DSG/VAQ version. The DSG & VAQ launch in the TCR race cars was effectively a PR exercise to “prove” you could track the DSG/VAQ...the DSG & VAQ was proven too costly in terms of repairs & weight...





I don't understand where this thread has gone.

An eLSD and a LSD are not the same thing. One sits inside the gearbox and is a differential, the other uses the brakes to mimic what a differential does.

Is the end result similar? Depends on your usage. For a street car and light track use it's not really a big deal and you'll never tell the difference. The eLSD is something that can work in place of having a real LSD. For a track car, I think we can understand why they might want something that isn't further using the brakes to mimic a different part. It's not the same thing.

Just because something mimics something else does not mean its the same thing. Next you'll tell me a fleshlight is the same as a real girl.
 

mrmattolsen

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2015 GTI DSG
Damn, everyone needs to just chillax already and stop waving the PP around. Agree to disagree, shake hands, and move on. No need for insults or attacks. There's plenty of that elsewhere on the internet.
 

TheJokker

Go Kart Newbie
Location
jacksonville
..........He mentioned the sequential already?







I don't understand where this thread has gone.

An eLSD and a LSD are not the same thing. One sits inside the gearbox and is a differential, the other uses the brakes to mimic what a differential does.

Is the end result similar? Depends on your usage. For a street car and light track use it's not really a big deal and you'll never tell the difference. The eLSD is something that can work in place of having a real LSD. For a track car, I think we can understand why they might want something that isn't further using the brakes to mimic a different part. It's not the same thing.

Just because something mimics something else does not mean its the same thing. Next you'll tell me a fleshlight is the same as a real girl.
No... The VAQ (eLSD) is an electronically controlled mechanical Limited Slip differential. GTI's without the performance package uses the brake simulated differential you are describing.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Actually they (TCR racers) ditched the whole transmission to save weight...
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/heres-what-the-hoonigan-hoonicorn-formula-e-and-our-vw-tcr-have-in-common

The Wavetrac is a fine LSD and for some the only option. The Clubsport S "proves" you can build a very fast car around the VAQ despite your insinuations to the contrary. Pretending it is not a LSD solution is a red flag you are not the subject expert you assume you are...

Again you are ignoring the links I have repeatedly posted.....they didn't ditch the DSG.....its still available, but only with an LSD not the VAQ...

I'll repost the link again from the TCR website...

This is for MK7 Golf TCR race car with the DSG..& LSD (not VAQ)

https://www.tcr-series.com/homologated-cars/item/volkswagen-golf-gti-tcr-dsg

TRANSMISSION​

Front-wheel-drive
Gearbox: DSG 6-speed sequential with paddle shift
Clutch: sintered multi-disc oil cooled
Differential: multi-plate limited slip differential



This is for the Sadev sequential

https://www.tcr-series.com/homologated-cars/item/volkswagen-golf-gti-tcr-2018

TRANSISSION​

Front-wheel-drive
Gearbox: Sadev 6-speed sequential with paddle shift
Clutch: sintered multi-disc
Differential: multi-plate limited slip differential



As for your statement of "Pretending it is not a LSD solution is a red flag you are not the subject expert you assume you are..."

I'll repeat what I've stated before....by your "logic" that its an LSD due to the "end result"....therefore ALL the ABS braking systems which have "Electronic Diff Lock/EDL" etc. are also LSDs due to the "end result" ....

Applying your same logic of "end result", then a manual gearbox, DSG gearbox, slush box auto, Sadev sequential, etc are ALL the same....as the "end result" is the same...ie to transfer drive from the engine to the axles...


I know the engineering difference & prefer to use the correct engineering terminology...

As you are implying that I am not an expert on the VAQ unit, what is incorrect in my guide & provide the documents from Borg Warner or VW to prove the corrections.
 
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