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Oil weight

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
I tried searching thru Tapatalk & Google but didn't get any good info.

What oil weight would be good for heavy track use? I'm getting to about 260 and that is on a 75 degree day. Several people including some instructors said I should move up a weight to help manage the temps better. Currently running 5w-40 castrol edge.

What would be the next bump up to a thicker oil? Or if anyone has bumped up what oil do you run?
 

Mini7

Ready to race!
Location
Charlotte, NC
The next step up would be to a 50-weight oil. Not sure that you get a 5-50 multi weight.
A 10-50 would work in Summer months without any cold start-up issues.

I’m in the same boat. My last time out at VIR in April had about the same ambient and I got as high as 270 and I back off for a lap or two. Until I figure out which way to go with an oil cooler. 10w50 will give a little better protection.

I’ll switch back to the 5W40 for late November DE’s.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
The next step up would be to a 50-weight oil. Not sure that you get a 5-50 multi weight.
A 10-50 would work in Summer months without any cold start-up issues.

I’m in the same boat. My last time out at VIR in April had about the same ambient and I got as high as 270 and I back off for a lap or two. Until I figure out which way to go with an oil cooler. 10w50 will give a little better protection.

I’ll switch back to the 5W40 for late November DE’s.
Easier to change oil vs spending $550 on an oil cooler. Its hard to find anyone running thicker oil on these cars I would guess.
 

aaronc7

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Clovis, NM
I'm a little late to the party but, personally I think at 260 you're probably fine as is. Much higher though and I would be shopping for oil cooler or run thicker oil.

A good compromise in your case might be running Red Line 5w40 or similar (vw/audi guys seem to like Motul?). In comparison to Mobil 1 0w40.... Mobil 1 has a HTHS of 3.5 while Red line 5w40 is 4.4.

So on paper at least, it should provide superior protection at high temps without being an overly thick 50 weight oil day to day, etc. Oil is about 2x the cost...but like someone else said, small cost in comparison to oil cooler.

https://www.redlineoil.com/5w40-motor-oil
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
i run a 10w-60 because I've hit 295 on track with the 40w.

Oil viscosity vs temp is a linear relationship (ignoring the multiweight oils near 0*C). If we assume VW designed these engines to run at ideal temps of 212*F with a 40W oil, then a 60W provides the same viscosity at approximately 248*F. Since moving to the 60W oil, my temps have actually gone down from 295 on a 95* day to 275-280 on a similar 95* day. My oil also seems to get up to temp a lot faster, though (225* or so in less than 5 min of street driving). Also, seems to be less oil burn on track.

I ran amsoil 5w-40 and had a "perfect" blackstone labs report, and we'll see how it returns this winter for the Liqui Moly 10w-60 full synthetic.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
i run a 10w-60 because I've hit 295 on track with the 40w.

Oil viscosity vs temp is a linear relationship (ignoring the multiweight oils near 0*C). If we assume VW designed these engines to run at ideal temps of 212*F with a 40W oil, then a 60W provides the same viscosity at approximately 248*F. Since moving to the 60W oil, my temps have actually gone down from 295 on a 95* day to 275-280 on a similar 95* day. My oil also seems to get up to temp a lot faster, though (225* or so in less than 5 min of street driving). Also, seems to be less oil burn on track.

I ran amsoil 5w-40 and had a "perfect" blackstone labs report, and we'll see how it returns this winter for the Liqui Moly 10w-60 full synthetic.
Assuming that isn't a VW approved oil.

I've never gone higher than 258, I switched from Castrol to motul and saw reduction in temps by about 8 degrees.
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Assuming that isn't a VW approved oil.

I've never gone higher than 258, I switched from Castrol to motul and saw reduction in temps by about 8 degrees.
I don't know of any oils that are higher than 40W that fall under the official 502 spec. The LM 10w-60 is the BMW M sport approved oil. Amsoil rarely gets direct manufacturer approvals from what I've seen, but I don't know anyone that can argue the quality and durability of their oils.

I typically do two-per-year Blackstone labs analyses because I find data more reliable than spec lists.
 

GTI-CAL

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Bay Area
How accurate is the built in oil temp on the GTI's?
Are you guys getting your reading from the built in oil temp display?
I was at thunderhill on a 105 degree day and the highest temp i saw was 236F from built in display.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Newbie
Location
Phoenix
Ride
2018 SE DSG
I saw 245-255 in 35-55F ambients this past weekend.
If that's with just normal driving that's too high especially at that ambient temperature. I never see over 235 degrees and that's with an ambient temperature of 115 degrees in Phoenix.
 

GTIfan99

Drag Racing Champion
Location
FL
How accurate is the built in oil temp on the GTI's?
Are you guys getting your reading from the built in oil temp display?
I was at thunderhill on a 105 degree day and the highest temp i saw was 236F from built in display.
That's entirely possible if you're new to tracking and aren't pushing the car. If you're an experienced driver, then I highly doubt those numbers. Mine read 260 at 97deg ambient at Daytona in September, which is about what I expected for how I was driving. If I'd had better pads and tires and could have pushed harder, I would have expected higher.
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
How accurate is the built in oil temp on the GTI's?
Are you guys getting your reading from the built in oil temp display?
I was at thunderhill on a 105 degree day and the highest temp i saw was 236F from built in display.
From what I've seen of the data coming from OBD2, it appears the data fed to the ECU is accurate to 0.1*C. The gauge in the dash seems to display everything in 5*F intervals, so I would estimate it's accuracy as plus or minus 2.5* since the ECU data doesn't appear to be the accuracy limit. The 2.5 being half of 5 to account for the rounding the display is doing with 242.4* vs 242.6* likely doing the rounding to 240* vs 245*.

I've done one 105*+ day and I was pushing 295 in under 10 mins, water was getting very hot, timing was heavily retarded, two misfires in the mid rpm range, and throttle response was atrocious.
 

GTI-CAL

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Bay Area
That's entirely possible if you're new to tracking and aren't pushing the car. If you're an experienced driver, then I highly doubt those numbers. Mine read 260 at 97deg ambient at Daytona in September, which is about what I expected for how I was driving. If I'd had better pads and tires and could have pushed harder, I would have expected higher.
I wasnt going all out ham but i did go full throttle on a lot of laps and never saw it go above 235-240. not that oil matters much but i was using castrol edge 0w-40
 

Mini7

Ready to race!
Location
Charlotte, NC
If that's with just normal driving that's too high especially at that ambient temperature. I never see over 235 degrees and that's with an ambient temperature of 115 degrees in Phoenix.
The quoted temps are on track at VIR.

Normal highway driving, I see 210-224 depending on the ambient/traffic.
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
The quoted temps are on track at VIR.

Normal highway driving, I see 210-224 depending on the ambient/traffic.
With the oil cooler and stage 2, I have yet to see anything past 212 on the street, even on a 100*F day and 15 mins of driving. Without the oil cooler it would have been closer to 230. My issue now is that I can't get oil up to temp on the colder days. I almost never break 170 after 10-15 mins on the street, so I ride the car in the mid rpm range to get the temp up. I'm pretty sure the racingline pressure based valve opens way earlier than 186 or whatever it's claimed to be.

As an aside on the oil weight, I've gone up and down with various weights between Liqui-Moly and Amsoil. Heavier oil seems to be much more manageable on track with super hot days. It appears to keep the temps slightly lower (5 to 10 degrees ~), but more importantly there's a lot less PCV flooding and when up to temp the engine seems to like revving in the 6-7k range more (stock is20 turbo and some intake flow mods). As I add cooling, I anticipate better results with lighter oil. During cold mornings, the 10w60 has a very rough idle and long cold start. So far, both oils have come back fairly clean on blackstone labs reports.
 

MSH

Ready to race!
Location
Denver
.....During cold mornings, the 10w60 has a very rough idle and long cold start. So far, both oils have come back fairly clean on blackstone labs reports.
Based on this statement I take it you are just not running 10-60 at the track only? Normal everyday driving as well? Next yr I was planning to run 10-60 on the warmer HPDE days but really only for the event
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Based on this statement I take it you are just not running 10-60 at the track only? Normal everyday driving as well? Next yr I was planning to run 10-60 on the warmer HPDE days but really only for the event
i typically change my oil every 5k miles, or 16 -20 sessions. With the oil burn from the PCV I'm topping off every 2-4 sessions typically. I work from home, so I rarely drive anywhere, and thus I see no need to change oil between events. After 5k miles or 16 sessions, my oil is very dark and has that very noticeable used oil smell. Blackstone results show this oil to have some mild contaminants but indicate an otherwise excellent health. Typically for fall/winter I run the 5-40 or 0-40 and during the warmer months i run 10-60.

When the weather is in the 40s is when the rough idle starts to be noticeable until warm, but it's really very noticeable in the 20s. Once warm, it all seems to operate okay, but surprisingly the heavier oil doesn't seem to take long to warm up. I wonder if that's because denser oil has greater friction?

I notice you're in Denver; do you frequent High Plains? I plan to make it out to at least one event at High Plains in 2020. You should consider a drive to Topeka, KS for Heartland Park :).
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
i typically change my oil every 5k miles, or 16 -20 sessions. With the oil burn from the PCV I'm topping off every 2-4 sessions typically. I work from home, so I rarely drive anywhere, and thus I see no need to change oil between events. After 5k miles or 16 sessions, my oil is very dark and has that very noticeable used oil smell. Blackstone results show this oil to have some mild contaminants but indicate an otherwise excellent health. Typically for fall/winter I run the 5-40 or 0-40 and during the warmer months i run 10-60.

When the weather is in the 40s is when the rough idle starts to be noticeable until warm, but it's really very noticeable in the 20s. Once warm, it all seems to operate okay, but surprisingly the heavier oil doesn't seem to take long to warm up. I wonder if that's because denser oil has greater friction?

I notice you're in Denver; do you frequent High Plains? I plan to make it out to at least one event at High Plains in 2020. You should consider a drive to Topeka, KS for Heartland Park :).
Good god thats a lot of oil burn. That certainly can't be normal/healthy. I typically do 3 full weekends and street miles as my daily and never had to top off the oil between changes. (usually do oil changes every 7-7.5k).
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Good god thats a lot of oil burn. That certainly can't be normal/healthy. I typically do 3 full weekends and street miles as my daily and never had to top off the oil between changes. (usually do oil changes every 7-7.5k).
My most frequented track has two medium right sweepers, one fast right, and one uphill right (where the biggest oil burn occurs). With stiffer suspension and a good 200tw tire I'm pulling a lot of G on those turns. I've gotten to know the car pretty well now, so next year I think tires will likely last two weekends, maybe 3 on cooler days, which is on par with what the TT race groups generally run. Some of the faster guys I drive with are running two events per set of brake pads. Engine health seems perfectly fine overall; car pulls strong, oiling appears good, valves looked clean last I checked, and compression was good earlier this year. On the street I get zero oil burn. No issues during winter.

Every time I check the intake after some fast sessions, everything is coated in oil and engine juice. It's about 0.6 to 0.8L top off between oil changes. On hotter days with hotter/thinner oil the burn happens faster. I talked to a guy that runs an S3 who's really fast, and he's burning a lot more than me. He went to the racingline catch can and said it helped, but he's emptying it every weekend. He recommended avoiding the pcv replacement can, since it seems the pcv actually works well for the most part and going to the pcv replacement cans caused more loss for him.

I'm not sure about other's experiences... I'm sure there are variances between cars, mileage, etc. You get what you get...
 

SouthFL_Mk7.5

Go Kart Newbie
Location
South Florida
Ride
2019 GTI S
Hello all. New to the forum. I have a 2019 GTI which I’m prepping for an HPDE at Sebring in December. Sticker on the front air dam says VW508 00 & SAE 0w20.
After reading above about going slightly heavier, should I use 5w40 instead?
 
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