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OEM sway bars - need help identifying

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
So far I've come across multiple different OEM sway bars for the GTI, but I'm having trouble getting accurate or consistent info on which cars they apply to. Every vendor says something different. Does anyone have access to official VW parts catalog to confirm, please?

PositionPNSize (mm)ApplicationsRateNotes
Rear5Q0-511-305-AT21.7 x 3Mk7 & Mk8 GTI?
Rear5Q0-511-305-BA21.7 x 3.6Mk8 GTI w/ DCC (some sites say mk7 too)348 lbs/inRates from APR
Rear5QM-511-305-C20.2 (solid)Mk7 GTI315 lbs/inRates from APR
Front5Q0-411-303-R24.1 x 3.9??
Front5QM-411-303-A???
Front?24.3 x 4.1Mk8 GTI?Referenced on APR's website
 
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mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Bored at work? ;)
Lol. Mainly trying to put better facts to some of the mk7-mk8 comparisons out there. There are a lot of gaps, and some flat out wrong info. This will also help me understand the differences in handling I feel between mk7-mk8 and help me better plan upgrades. It could also help with identifying opportunities for OEM-plus upgrades for others. I’ve already documented spring rates and a few other things. The sway bars are a unique challenge.
 
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DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/suspension/swaybartheory

I've measured out the stock FSB and RSB for my 19 PP GTI and plugged into some well-established formulas for calculating rate. The rear bar is vastly different than whatever APR has per your original post. There is certainly some fudge factor depending on who/how it is measured so mine are not necessarily "correct", but since I measured the OEM vs H&R bars as close to identically as possible, I think the relative difference between them is at least valid FWIW.

1729300981442.png
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Lol. Mainly trying to put better facts to some of the mk7-mk8 comparisons out there. There are a lot of gaps, and some flat out wrong info. This will also help me understand the differences in handling I feel between mk7-mk8 and help me better plan upgrades. It could also help with identifying opportunities for OEM-plus upgrades for others. I’ve already documented spring rates and a few other things. The sway bars are a unique challenge.
Hunting for the perfect, or correct rear bar is a red herring.

Handling is far more impacted by alignment. It's cheap and easy and under utilized.

I did a track-cross the past weekend using my exact autocross settings, alignment and tires and it was totally fine running rear toe out.
 

ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I run the 5Q0-511-305-BA rear sway bar on my '17 NA GTI SE. According to the pic I stole from @EB2429 it's for the Clubsport S. Funny enough, I bought it used via part number on ebay for 50 bucks. Every listing w/ part number and "Clubsport S" in it was triple the price. Some variants of Tiguan and Arteon use the BA bar as well.

ClubsportS_parts.JPG
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
I run the 5Q0-511-305-BA rear sway bar on my '17 NA GTI SE. According to the pic I stole from @EB2429 it's for the Clubsport S. Funny enough, I bought it used via part number on ebay for 50 bucks. Every listing w/ part number and "Clubsport S" in it was triple the price. Some variants of Tiguan and Arteon use the BA bar as well.

View attachment 311491
So what's funny is if I look up that part #, depending on the website, it shows OEM applications for regular GTIs too. Hence my questions about official parts catalog. What's the source of that chart? Just because something is used on the Clubsport doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't used on other models. Did it feel like an upgrade when you put it in?

As I understand it from @DerHase, if the only difference is the wall thickness (3.6mm vs. 3.0mm), there should be a pretty minimal difference in stiffness. But if the dimensions of the bar (like where the curves are) differ, then that could be a big factor. (@DerHase is the sway bar measurements expert)
 
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mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Hunting for the perfect, or correct rear bar is a red herring.

Handling is far more impacted by alignment. It's cheap and easy and under utilized.

I did a track-cross the past weekend using my exact autocross settings, alignment and tires and it was totally fine running rear toe out.
There's a lot of debate here, but I'm well aware of where you stand on this and am not looking to turn this thread into another discussion of which bar to get 👍. I'm not hunting for a bar, and FWIW I've had great success with some small alignment tweaks on my Mk8. Nevertheless, I'm still trying to understand the difference (if any) between the bars to help understand the differences in handling between the Mk7 and Mk8 GTI -- which are significant and noticeable.

I’ve noted several other components that are different and this is pretty much the only area I’m having trouble identifying clearly.
 
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mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/suspension/swaybartheory

I've measured out the stock FSB and RSB for my 19 PP GTI and plugged into some well-established formulas for calculating rate. The rear bar is vastly different than whatever APR has per your original post. There is certainly some fudge factor depending on who/how it is measured so mine are not necessarily "correct", but since I measured the OEM vs H&R bars as close to identically as possible, I think the relative difference between them is at least valid FWIW.

View attachment 311484
Yeah I don't know then. Every vendor, and this spreadsheet, seem to have different numbers. Based on what APR told me, the bars are measured on some sort of machine to determine the rate. I guess what mostly matters is that the before and after is measured the same way, right? Like a dyno.
 
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ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Did it feel like an upgrade when you put it in?

As I understand it from @DerHase, if the only difference is the wall thickness (3.6mm vs. 3.0mm), there should be a pretty minimal difference in stiffness. But if the dimensions of the bar (like where the curves are) differ, then that could be a big factor. (@DerHase is the sway bar measurements expert)
It still feels like an upgrade to me. Just to be clear here, on easy parts as rear sway bar, rear shocks, rear bump stops, trailing arms, I tend to double check my results by reverting it back to factory or previous iteration. If the result follows the part I keep what I like better. Talking of the BA bar: Steering response front to rear got more equal, slightly flater feel in corners, minimal to no head toss impact (that would have been a no-go for me). I have tried different rear shock tunes (and springs) instead as well. If I go to aggressive on the shock tune for better front to rear steering balance overall I don't like how non-compliant the ride gets in certain places.

It's been a while since I went to engineering school. Assuming geometry, material, ... is the same between 3,6mm and 3,0mm, the torsional moments of inertia for the tube with thicker walls should be around 10% higher. When I started shock tuning about 18 years ago the Porsche engineer suggested to change the rear spring rate by 2N/mm, that was 5% more. I have to admit I was really impressed of the ride and handling difference, didn't expect it to feel at all.

At the end it is a suspension system. Every component has its own +/-. You can get to similar results with too many recipes. All it matters is your butt meter and budget.
 
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Goodbar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Maryland, USA
Car(s)
Mk7.5 GSW
So far I've come across multiple different OEM sway bars for the GTI, but I'm having trouble getting accurate or consistent info on which cars they apply to. Every vendor says something different. Does anyone have access to official VW parts catalog to confirm, please?

PositionPNSize (mm)ApplicationsRateNotes
Rear5Q0-511-305-AT21.7 x 3Mk7 & Mk8 GTI?
Rear5Q0-511-305-BA21.7 x 3.6Mk8 GTI w/ DCC (some sites say mk7 too)348 lbs/inRates from APR
Rear5QM-511-305-C20.2 (solid)Mk7 GTI315 lbs/inRates from APR
Front5Q0-411-303-R24.1 x 3.9??
Front5QM-411-303-A???
Front?24.3 x 4.1Mk8 GTI?Referenced on APR's website

Here's what I see in ETKA:

PositionPNSize (mm)ApplicationsRateNotes
Front5Q0411303R24x3.8Mk7 Golf R, GSW 4Mo, Alltrack?PR:0AE
Front5Q0411303AC25x4Mk7.5 Golf R, GSW 4Mo, Alltrack?PR:0AF
Front5QM411303A24x3.8??PR:0AE+1X0
Front3Q0411303N25x?Tiguan, Arteon (4Mo)?
Front5Q0411303Q23.2x3.5Mk8 Golf??
Rear5Q0511305BF21.7x3.6Mk7, 7.5 Golf R?
Rear5Q0511305BA21.7x3.6Arteon FWD?

I am curious about the possibility of using the Tiguan/Arteon AWD front bar as a potential OEM+ upgrade. Those vehicles weigh 3800-4000 lbs, so I'd expect the front bar to be a bit stiffer than the GSW/Alltrack/R front bar. Anyone have specs on 3Q0411303N? It's simply listed as "25" in ETKA with no wall thickness.

When I look up a 2022 Golf for the US and EU markets, I see Q, R and AC front bars. Assuming the progression is Golf, GTI, R? For the Mk8 rear bars, I'm seeing a ton of part numbers with no dimensions — just PR code combos.
 
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