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No Haldex on the MK8?

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
So the MK8 doesn't have a Haldex unit, it's just a straight driveshaft? Is there oil in the new clutch pack-equipped rear differential? Sounds like there should be. It also sounds like drift mode disables the traction control, at least on the rear wheels. Not that I think much of it since the much of it since the power take off location hasn't changed.
 
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Urlik

Go Kart Newbie
Location
San Angelo, TX
The Magna torque vectoring system puts a clutch pack on each rear axle instead one before the rear differential like the Haldex does. The new system allows 100% of the torque directed to the rear of the car to go to just one axle. Still a max 50% of torque sent to the back of the car though.
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
The Magna torque vectoring system puts a clutch pack on each rear axle instead one before the rear differential like the Haldex does. The new system allows 100% of the torque directed to the rear of the car to go to just one axle. Still a max 50% of torque sent to the back of the car though.
Which to me is useless. We already use the brakes individually for traction control, which does the same thing. All that slowing the half-shafts on the rear does is make your brakes last longer and maybe not heat up as much. It doesn't save any overall weight. We're up to near 3500 pounds for an R now and you probably still need to change the oil in it. How are the clutch packs applied, another one(or two) hydraulic pumps?
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
Which to me is useless. We already use the brakes individually for traction control, which does the same thing. All that slowing the half-shafts on the rear does is make your brakes last longer and maybe not heat up as much. It doesn't save any overall weight. We're up to near 3500 pounds for an R now and you probably still need to change the oil in it. How are the clutch packs applied, another one(or two) hydraulic pumps?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/clash-pan-torque-vectoring-hot-hatches-face

The system in the Golf R works like this. Torque flows through the gearbox and into an open differential on the front axle. From that sprouts an output shaft that runs to the rear axle. Previously on the Golf R, that shaft fed into a clutch pack that, once engaged, allowed 50% of total engine torque to drive the rear axle through another open differential, with the torque split equally between the wheels. The Mk7’s ‘Gen 5’ Haldex clutch pack worked rapidly, too, being electronically governed and preloaded with hydraulic pressure.

However, in the Mk8, there’s no clutch pack before the back axle. The propshaft that unifies each end of the car instead takes drive into the rear axle via a pair of simple bevel gears; and it’s the electromechanical clutch packs that sit either side of those bevel gears that control and manipulate the amount of torque that ends up at each wheel. If the left-hand pack is completely open and the right-pack fully engaged, as is sometimes the case in Drift mode, all available torque (again, only up to half of what the engine is making) will surge to the right-hand wheel – and vice versa. But any ratio is possible, because that’s what clutch-based vectoring permits. It’s up to the development engineers to devise how the torque splitter should behave, depending not only on driving mode but, within that broad parameter, also the throttle position, steering angle, cornering g-forces, what the electronic stability programme (ESP) is saying… and on it goes.

“Drift mode is an over-the-top application,” says Jonas Thielebein, the engineer who oversaw the Mk8 Golf R project, “because normally you don’t want your car to slip.” He says the sweet spot is generally to have a less extreme calibration, where the car rotates just a touch, to the extent that the driver can feel it but onlookers can’t actually see it. “That’s the way to drive fast, and that’s what we try to do,” he says, before explaining that if you do ever explore the car’s Drift mode, one of the rear clutch packs really does remain “nearly permanently open”.



etc...
 

Bobby Boucher

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
Golf R
Which to me is useless. We already use the brakes individually for traction control, which does the same thing. All that slowing the half-shafts on the rear does is make your brakes last longer and maybe not heat up as much. It doesn't save any overall weight. We're up to near 3500 pounds for an R now and you probably still need to change the oil in it. How are the clutch packs applied, another one(or two) hydraulic pumps?
ABS-based “LSDs” have never been ideal, though.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
That MK8 R system sounds heavy & complex..two clutch packs????...more to go wrong....wonder how it compares to a MK7 or 7.5 R with Wavetrack LSDs front & rear??....

Haldex still uses the ABS systems in certain situations to help initiate "lock up" of the clutch packs...

Quote from my thread:-
How the VW Golf GTI Performance Pack (PP) “Front Differential Lock” (VAQ) works. | GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum

What about the “preload” problem?
The worst case scenario for any LSD or the FDL unit is that of "zero load". This could be described as having the car on level ground with all the wheels pointing straight ahead & all on ice, meaning there is no grip/torque difference between the driven wheels.

How the FDL unit deals with it:-
The FDL unit is not supposed to have this problem as its an electrohydraulic clutch pack diff lock. Unfortunately, it still has a “preload” type problem as it still requires a minimum amount of torque imbalance in Nm between the driven wheels to lock up. If the driven wheels cannot provide enough grip for this then the cars existing XDS+ systems within the ABS unit will be used to apply pressure to the brakes & create a torque imbalance between the driven wheels. This is why it draws heavily on the existing CAN system & sensors.
 

Bobby Boucher

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
Golf R
When people told me my Tesla was "omg all compudaz" I always have to tell them - we've been driving computer-mobiles for the better part of 3 decades by now.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
When people told me my Tesla was "omg all compudaz" I always have to tell them - we've been driving computer-mobiles for the better part of 3 decades by now.
Except for the ability to do system updates etc over the air.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
Not sure if it’s laziness, but the US site lists the weight as 3,417 lbs, same as the Canadian site at 1,550 kg. It could just be that the Canadians decided to list the weight with the sunroof.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Unlikely. The sunroof is likely the bulk of it, along with larger brakes and two piston calipers.

Not sure if it’s laziness, but the US site lists the weight as 3,417 lbs, same as the Canadian site at 1,550 kg. It could just be that the Canadians decided to list the weight with the sunroof.


I'll get more exact specs later today. I think the brakes are virtually the same size disc as MK7 R...just it now has 2 piston calipers like the MK4 R32...
 
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