New to DSG. Halp!

[Boje]

@SouthFL_Mk7.5 can you get custom coins for the Leyo knobs, do you know? Don't dislike the black one. Without the leather covering like some others, I'd be worried about not being able to touch it in the summer... living in Florida, do you have that problem?

 

[SouthFL_Mk7.5]

@SouthFL_Mk7.5 can you get custom coins for the Leyo knobs, do you know? Don't dislike the black one. Without the leather covering like some others, I'd be worried about not being able to touch it in the summer... living in Florida, do you have that problem?

Maybe on a scorching day the knob is hot to the touch but cools quickly enough with the a/c for use. Next time I have the cars together side by side I’ll measure the diameter of the coin inserts on both brands.

 

[rahtx]

- I have noticed that the car will use 2nd gear well below 2k rpms in S and D modes when it needs to. When driving in manual mode, it won't let me shift from 1st to 2nd until I'm over 2k rpms, unless I'm pushing the throttle quite hard and hit the paddle at about 1800 rpms. This restriction feels super weird coming from a manual when you're in exactly the gear you want to be in, for whatever reason, all of the time.

Really? Weird. I can't say that I've ever noticed this restriction before. Will have to try it and see...

So I went and tried this yesterday and this morning and on my Mk7 I can definitely shift to 2nd under 2K RPM, even under very light throttle. From the several times I tried it, I could only get it to "lock me out" of shifting if I was below 1500RPM. Maybe the 7spd is different than the 6? First gear is so short that I honestly had to make a concerted effort to shift early enough to be denied, so at least in my car, it's not something I would ever encounter in every day/normal driving, and I use manual mode around 80-90% of the time...

 

[Dog Dad Wagon]

Would a TCU tune help with any of the below? (I would go EQT):
- Yes.

- EQT site says the delay when shifting in manual mode is removed with the tune, is this really true? The delay is really annoying. I'm talking at city driving speeds, not just when getting on it.
- Yes.

- in manual mode, the gear indicator in the AID changes to the new gear before the new gear is actually engaged. This is confusing when driving hard on the twisties and changing gears a lot. Does this change once tuned?
- Can't speak from experience, but i would bet so.

- I took a lot of pride in manually rev-matching smoothly and quickly in all situations in the GTI, and have heard so much prior to getting a DSG how it's just better than you are. But... it's not. At all, at least in stock form. Especially at lower speeds, there's this lurch when downshifting as you feel the clutch disengage and you're kind of in neutral for a sec and the car feels loose, and then the new gear engages. My passengers feel downshifts, particularly at slower speeds, in a way they never (okay, rarely) did in my GTI, despite the rev-matching being very audible in that car due to mods (DP, mounts, etc.). I really miss this, and hate that momentary feeling of loose-ness followed by a sudden slowing once the lower gear engages. I have tried the DSG reset via OBD11, not sure it did anything. I'm aware of the need to go into S mode before going into manual mode to get quicker changes, and always do this, but it's not a lot better. I've also read about how to make the DSG better predict what you're about to do, and that works to some extent, but not that much with this issue. I can mitigate it a bit with the brake, but I can't always get it right because I don't know exactly what the DSG is about to do in the way I used to know exactly what my left foot was about to do.
- This honestly sounds like over/underfilling from the factory. The 2019 GTI SE DSG with auto stop-start loaner I had for a month in 2019 downshifted flawlessly in S, i loved it.

- I have noticed that the car will use 2nd gear well below 2k rpms in S and D modes when it needs to. When driving in manual mode, it won't let me shift from 1st to 2nd until I'm over 2k rpms, unless I'm pushing the throttle quite hard and hit the paddle at about 1800 rpms. This restriction feels super weird coming from a manual when you're in exactly the gear you want to be in, for whatever reason, all of the time.
- This won't change with a TCU tune for the most part. DSGs use 1st like 6MT drivers use 1st: to get going from a stop, and not much else. It can slip 2nd between like 4 and 7 mph. But a TCU tune would make it so that, if you're going 5-10mph in 2nd in D or S, and stomp on it, it'll downshift instead of revving out 2nd like the stock tune would do.

And then some other things:

- engine breaking doesn't feel as effective as it did in my GTI. I never really used the brakes on the highway unless something unexpected happened, but it feels like I have to in the DSG, as engine breaking doesn't slow the car down as much. The new car is stock, though, and the GTI was fairly heavily modded (clutch, mounts, etc.), so maybe it's just that...? Maybe it's the R's increased weight...?
- This is surprising, and not the experience i've had with either DSGs I've owned. In fact my last DSG GTI went to 95K on stock pads and rotors because I essentially never used my brakes, the DSG's engine braking was so effective.

- is it really bad, as I've read, to downshift into 1st? If so, why? People also say this about 6MTs but I did it all the time in NYC slower traffic, and yes it required some very accurate rev-matching, but under 15mph, I had no problem doing it. Am I really not supposed to downshift to 1st?

- my current Alltrack is a 6MT and I do this all the time, but i'd never do it higher than 10 mph. Definitely nothing wrong with doing it in a DSG since it rev matches perfectly, but again your car sounds like it's over/underfilled in which case I'd get it flushed ASAP by a reputable independent, or do it yourself.


If you have any further questions feel free to ask.

 

[Maiden69]

TLDR, get a DSG flush, and then a tune lol. If you haven’t been able to “figure it out” it’s likely because either the trans was over or underfilled from the factory which causes poor shifting,

I was waiting for your reply here, as I just stepped down from manual cars (2004 GTO turbo, 2011 CamaroSS, 2020 CamaroSS-1LE) and I have the same complaints the OP have. I thought about the logic of the TCU being the cause of the problem I was having, but I wasn't aware of the fluid level issue with this car. I guess I have to order a DSG service kit next month when I order the oil change from FCP.

I think some of it may be that I'm simply struggling to adapt to a computer shifting the gears for me and the consequent buffer between me and the transmission. I guess it's never going to be as perfect, intuitive, a process as doing it oneself.

Same way I feel to be honest. Even my tuned Silverado shifting was "smarter" when compared to the DSG on this car. I was used to braking to let an idiot pass so I could floor it and move out of the way, as soon as I removed the foot from the brake and hit the gas the Silverado will automatically downshift to the lowest gear possible. On the GTI, I do the same thing and when I move from brake to gas there is a delay (like a total loss of power) before it downshifts and speeds up.

What I have been doing lately is, if I encounter as situation where I may have this happen, to hit the downshift on the steering wheel to get the car in manual mode, that seems to cure most of the hesitation between brake and gas changes. I'm definitely jumping on the EQT tune as well, I was debating between the Stratified and EQT, but from all the reading here I think EQT will be the way to go for me.

 

[Dog Dad Wagon]

Yeah everyone loves EQT. If Cobb supported the 1.8 ECU that would 100% be my choice of tuner, but in their absence I’m likely just gonna get an APR IS20 stock downpipe 91 octane high torque tune, and run it with a Golf R DP and 93 octane. Should be a healthy 290AWHP, 310/320AWTQ.

 

[AdamSheikh]

This is an old writeup, but a lot (if not all) of it still applies. Definitely worth a read: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/ho...-and-win-dsg-driving-tips-and-tricks.5989734/

Ultimately, you need to understand the logic of the transmission before you attempt to override it. There's a definite learning curve to it - anyone who says a DSG is just another automatic is totally wrong.

 

[Boje]

Sorry for letting this thread die, I hit the road just after starting it and was pretty much off the grid for a couple weeks. Have managed to put more than 4500 miles on the new car in the first three or so weeks of owning it, so am getting used to the DSG – added a few things before I left, Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, BFI mounts, power mirrors, Neuspeed wheels, Hankook tires – the mounts helped a fair bit with the feeling of downshifting with the DSG, but it's still nowhere near as smooth as it was in my 6MT GTI. I didn't have time to do a DSG flush before I left, so I'm hoping that will help when I do do it, maybe it's over- or under-filled as suggested. I think the speed of shifts with the DSG is just maybe over-hyped a bit, it's great on upshifts when I'm pushing the car hard, but generally speaking the rest of the time it doesn't seem that smooth or 'perfect' to me. But, it has character and that's good I guess.

Otherwise enjoying the car, especially with the new suspension – love the B16 Damptronics, and the Eibach springs (which I only got because the DG springs I had on the GTI wouldn't fit) feel great but are a tad lower than I'd like in terms of rough roads and sharp inclines, but they drive brilliantly, and the stiffest mode feels much more usable with this suspension setup than it did stock, despite being slightly stiffer.

I think doing the engine and tranny mounts but not yet the dogbone/pendulum arm may have been a mistake; after a few thousand miles, I'm hearing a slightly worrying sort of squelch sound from beneath the car when downshifting at slower speeds, which I'm guessing is that stock mount taking the brunt of the engine movement because of the stiffer mounts up front, so will sort that out soon and hopefully will all feel nice and tight. Any recommendations for a dogbone setup that strikes the best balance between tightness and NVH on a DSG car would be appreciated – I had the 034 lower and upper in my old 6MT car and then moved to the Powerflex hybrid with the 034 upper and the Roc-Euro arm on my old car just before it was totaled. Felt great but I suspect the NVH would be intolerable for me in a DSG car, so anyone with any comparable experience, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Girlfriend says she 'definitely prefers' the new car, I suspect because the downpipe and dogbone haven't gone in yet, haha. Euro headrests are in the back, Euro LED tails and downpipe have arrived and will go in soon.

Here she is in a Pennsylvania campground last week. Thanks to all for the DSG advice!

 

[jimlloyd40]

Sorry for letting this thread die, I hit the road just after starting it and was pretty much off the grid for a couple weeks. Have managed to put more than 4500 miles on the new car in the first three or so weeks of owning it, so am getting used to the DSG – added a few things before I left, Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, BFI mounts, power mirrors, Neuspeed wheels, Hankook tires – the mounts helped a fair bit with the feeling of downshifting with the DSG, but it's still nowhere near as smooth as it was in my 6MT GTI. I didn't have time to do a DSG flush before I left, so I'm hoping that will help when I do do it, maybe it's over- or under-filled as suggested. I think the speed of shifts with the DSG is just maybe over-hyped a bit, it's great on upshifts when I'm pushing the car hard, but generally speaking the rest of the time it's doesn't seem that smooth or 'perfect' to me. But, it has character and that's good I guess.

Otherwise enjoying the car, especially with the new suspension – love the B16 Damptronics, and the Eibach springs (which I only got because the DG springs I had on the GTI wouldn't fit) feel great but are a tad lower than I'd like in terms of rough roads and sharp inclines, but they drive brilliantly, and the stiffest mode feels much more usable with this suspension setup than it did stock, despite being slightly stiffer.

I think doing the engine and tranny mounts but not yet the dogbone/pendulum arm may have been a mistake; after a few thousand miles, I'm hearing a slightly worrying sort of squelch sound from beneath the car when downshifting at slower speeds, which I'm guessing is that stock mount taking the brunt of the engine movement because of the stiffer mounts up front, so will sort that out soon and hopefully will all feel nice and tight. Any recommendations for a dogbone setup that strikes the best balance between tightness and NVH on a DSG car would be appreciated – I had the 034 lower and upper in my old 6MT car and then moved to the Powerflex hybrid with the 034 upper and the Roc-Euro arm on my old car just before it was totaled. Felt great but I suspect the NVH would be intolerable for me in a DSG car, so anyone with any comparable experience, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Girlfriend says she 'definitely prefers' the new car, I suspect because the downpipe and dogbone haven't gone in yet, haha. Euro headrests are in the back, Euro LED tails and downpipe have arrived and will go in soon.

Here she is in a Pennsylvania campground last week. Thanks to all for the DSG advice!

View attachment 219985

The OEM DSG tuning is lousy. Get an EQT DSG tune and it will transform your DSG.

 

[Boje]

The OEM DSG tuning is lousy. Get an EQT DSG tune and it will transform your DSG.

Yep, I will do. I've kind of been balking at the cost of making my GTI Accessport R-compatible, plus the cost of the new tunes (almost as much as buying a new AP with the tunes bundled) but will probably bite the bullet soon. A TCU tune presumably doesn't void the powertrain warranty like an ECU tune does, or does it? Not sure why I'm even asking to be honest, I'll obviously just do both at the same time, but just out of interest...

 

[jimlloyd40]

Yep, I will do. I've kind of been balking at the cost of making my GTI Accessport R-compatible, plus the cost of the new tunes (almost as much as buying a new AP with the tunes bundled) but will probably bite the bullet soon. A TCU tune presumably doesn't void the powertrain warranty like an ECU tune does, or does it? Not sure why I'm even asking to be honest, I'll obviously just do both at the same time, but just out of interest...

As far as I know it would only void the DSG warranty but I haven't personally seen one instance of that happening.

 

[Boje]

As far as I know it would only void the DSG warranty but I haven't personally seen one instance of that happening.

Cool, thanks!

 

[Maiden69]

Update to my issues... they are completely gone. I bit the bullet and ordered a COBB AP with the DSG tuning (once I get the supporting mods I plan on updating to EQT Stg 2 and DSG tune). The DSG tune completely took out all the annoyances that I was having with the transmission holding gears too long. My biggest issue was stepping on the gas to pass or merge into traffic and having the DSG hold 4th gear while doing 75 for 10 seconds or more. I am running the Sport tune, but I am going to try the Aggressive to see if there is any difference, as I still find my self switching to Sport mode often. Now the DSG holds gears between 1500-2000 rpm, which is way better than the 1000-1100 in the OEM tune, lugging the engine. I still feel that the sweet spot for this engine is above 2000 rpm, like there is no power below that point.

Another benefit is that the DSG now feels "smarter" as it downshifts as you get close to 2000 rpm, and removed most of the hesitation I used to get between the movement from brake-gas. Also the Stg 1-93 tune completely changed the car... can't wait to complete all the mods for the EQT tune.

 

[Boje]

Update to my issues... they are completely gone. I bit the bullet and ordered a COBB AP with the DSG tuning (once I get the supporting mods I plan on updating to EQT Stg 2 and DSG tune). The DSG tune completely took out all the annoyances that I was having with the transmission holding gears too long. My biggest issue was stepping on the gas to pass or merge into traffic and having the DSG hold 4th gear while doing 75 for 10 seconds or more. I am running the Sport tune, but I am going to try the Aggressive to see if there is any difference, as I still find my self switching to Sport mode often. Now the DSG holds gears between 1500-2000 rpm, which is way better than the 1000-1100 in the OEM tune, lugging the engine. I still feel that the sweet spot for this engine is above 2000 rpm, like there is no power below that point.

Another benefit is that the DSG now feels "smarter" as it downshifts as you get close to 2000 rpm, and removed most of the hesitation I used to get between the movement from brake-gas. Also the Stg 1-93 tune completely changed the car... can't wait to complete all the mods for the EQT tune.

Yeah, I've also tuned the DSG, with EQT's tune, since starting this thread and it has made both D and S a pleasure to use. I had only driven in manual mode for the first 5500 miles in this car as I felt the auto modes were frustrating and weird. This helps massively, and S mode now feels impressively intelligent and in line with how I'd drive my old 6MT in normal driving. I'm still surprised by how much smoother I could downshift in my old 6MT, but the DSG tune helped, engine mounts helped, the DSG reset (using the AP; doing it via OBD11 didn't work for me) helped a tiiiny bit I think, not sure, and I'm really hoping that flushing the gearbox and making sure it's filled right will smoothen it out further, otherwise it is what it is. I'm learning to enjoy it and the EQT DSG tune has definitely made the car a pleasure to drive in a way it wasn't before.

It's funny, I read so much on here over the past few years about how much work has to be put into the mk7 6MT to make it great to drive, and I did eventually end up doing all of those things, but I was never frustrated with the gearbox in the 6MT in the way I have been with the DSG. The changes I made to the 6MT were incremental improvements based on how I liked to drive it, but it was totally useable in stock form. I'm kind of amused to discover that, at least for me, it's the DSG which makes a few changes absolutely necessary from the start, and they're much more expensive – the AP TCU unlock and tune is $575 and that's before mounts and DSG flush to make sure liquid level is correct, something I'm no supposed to have to do until 80k miles. I'm not including cost of new 6MT clutch because I haven't tuned the R's engine yet.

 

[Maiden69]

It's hard going from a manual to an auto. And the DSG, while it has it's benefits, it's frustrating to deal with if it is not tuned properly. My last "performance" cars were V8 manual, which makes power anywhere, from 1500-6500 so it makes a turbo 4 cyl with no power at 1500 frustrating. Being able to shift 2-3 gears down manually is a lot quicker than clicking the paddle 2-3 times and hoping it stops at the right gear. The tune solved most of this, as now when I brake, the DSG goes down as I am slowing down. Not as quick as the manual, but way better than before.

I am due for oil change this month, so I am going to order both motor and DSG and take care of that to see if it makes a change. I'm at 6300 and I plan on changing oil every 7500 while I'm IS20. I'll probably drop to 5000 if I go Vortex or TPC20.