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New Official MK7 Golf/GTI 1/4 Thread

wy2sl0

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ontario
You can run E60 on the stock fuel system on an IS20 without even adjusting the trims. The short term trims have 32% of play and true, full E85 (full tank) is around 30% difference in fuel.

You can mix E30-E40 and it would be fine. The long term trims adjust at idle when you start the car and add fuel across the entire map. What Ed said is 100%, you would have to be at the edge of fueling to ever have any issues.

That being said, if you do run too much without adjustment you'll throw some codes from being lean when on and off the throttle at light loads. Due to enrichment when in boost you won't see issues there.
 

Hoon

Autocross Newbie
Location
Rhode Island
Understood but 20-30% is on the edge before the long term fuel trims adjust.
20-30% fueling adjustment to go from E10 to E25?

Ed was being generous when he said more like 10%.

Some of your posts really make me question your signature:
Advanced engine design and development engine dyno engineer.
 

Ed @ EQT

GOLFMK7 Official Sponsor
Location
Fairfield, CA
So moral of the story I should be fine running an E20-E25 blend even on a off the shelf 91 octane tune?


Yep. You may not actually gain any power though. It will only help if you’re pulling timing on straight pump gas.
 

TechGuy32

Ready to race!
Location
My Place
I didn't say it was a 20-30% change in fueling, Will said he was using an E 20-30% blend.
 

ian124

Go Kart Newbie
Location
California
I didn't say it was a 20-30% change in fueling, Will said he was using an E 20-30% blend.
As other have said it will be fine. I don't know where you're getting your info
 

TechGuy32

Ready to race!
Location
My Place
It will only be fine if the short term fuel trims can compensate long enough for the long term fuel trims to adjust for the extra fuel required. Otherwise during the transition period the engine will be lean causing detonation requiring the knock system to pull additional timing from the engine lowering power even more.

I'm getting my info. from over 10,000 hours of performing WOT engine dyno calibration for auto makers, turbo makers and race teams.
 
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wy2sl0

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ontario
It will only be fine if the short term fuel trims can compensate long enough for the long term fuel trims to adjust for the extra fuel required. Otherwise during the transition period the engine will be lean causing detonation requiring the knock system to pull additional timing from the engine lowering power even more.

I'm getting my info. from over 10,000 hours of performing WOT engine dyno calibration for auto makers, turbo makers and race teams.
You won't get knock from going lean. A DI motor can run safely at 0.78-0.88 lambda and all files from the big companies run close to 0.8.
Not only that, the detonation resistance on ethanol is through the roof.

I'm sure you are knowledgeable, just maybe not about this platform.
 

Luchos

Go Kart Champion
Location
Chicago
You won't get knock from going lean. A DI motor can run safely at 0.78-0.88 lambda and all files from the big companies run close to 0.8.
Not only that, the detonation resistance on ethanol is through the roof.

I'm sure you are knowledgeable, just maybe not about this platform.
Back on track :D

Can you update the list, pretty please?
 

TechGuy32

Ready to race!
Location
My Place
You won't get knock from going lean. A DI motor can run safely at 0.78-0.88 lambda and all files from the big companies run close to 0.8.
Not only that, the detonation resistance on ethanol is through the roof.

I'm sure you are knowledgeable, just maybe not about this platform.
Please don't post nonsense when you don't have a clue what you are talking about. A lean condition can knock regardless with an E20-30 blend which does not raise the octane substantially over the base 91 octane Will is using.
 

TechGuy32

Ready to race!
Location
My Place
20-30% fueling adjustment to go from E10 to E25?

Ed was being generous when he said more like 10%.

Some of your posts really make me question your signature:
Some of your post show you have no clue.
 

TechGuy32

Ready to race!
Location
My Place
As Ed and I have pointed out if the ECU is pulling timing on 91 octane or on a lean E20-30 blend then there is a power loss. This ain't rocket science and those who have never done engine calibration would be wise to stop pretending they are experts on the subject when they are not and do not understand the combustion process.
 

Hoon

Autocross Newbie
Location
Rhode Island
Please don't post nonsense when you don't have a clue what you are talking about. A lean condition can knock regardless with an E20-30 blend which does not raise the octane substantially over the base 91 octane Will is using.
There's no fucking way you're an engine development engineer.

I have 2 friends who are actually engineers for OEM suppliers. One is automotive and the other is heavy equipment, and the depth of knowledge they have always astounds me.

You have surface level knowledge at best. Even if you've been out of the industry for awhile, you'd have VAST knowledge of direct injection platforms because you would have started working on them around 2005...much like the automotive development engineer I know is working exclusively on electric drivetrains...he's 5 years ahead of what's actually on the market.

Wy2Slo tuned the second fastest stock motor MQB (as well as at least a dozen other FAST MQB cars). Unlike you, he actually knows what he's talking about. E30 vs 91 Octane will allow at least 5-6 more degrees of ignition timing in these cars. The difference in the knock threshold is very substantial, far more than a few points on the lambda scale, which has a minimal effect on knock in DI engines.

An engineer would know this. Onto the ignore list you go.
 
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ian124

Go Kart Newbie
Location
California
Please don't post nonsense when you don't have a clue what you are talking about. A lean condition can knock regardless with an E20-30 blend which does not raise the octane substantially over the base 91 octane Will is using.
You do realize that you're arguing with some of the most knowledgeable people on this forum, and on this platform in general, correct? You're digging yourself deeper with every post. e30 is around 95 octane which is a HUGE difference, especially vs california 91 octane. You're still arguing that running e30 will make these cars run lean which is not true whatsoever. Before I got a dyno tune I ran an e30 blend on the Cobb OTS stage 3 93 map with zero issues.
 
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