New Garrett Turbos for MQB

[Hoon]

Personal opinions:

The S1 is a tricky turbo to tune, and there are several reports of failures even on turbos that had sensors and were never overspun, some of them being blown seals and others catastrophic. Wastegate duty is not a good indicator of headroom on small turbos in general, but on these it's especially misleading, so many of these will have the wheels blown out of them.

Between what appears to be a low tolerance for overboost, the inherent quirks of boost control on these units, and customer expectations not matching the hardware, we're going to see a lot of these fail. It's a perfect storm. People see the Garrett name and their pie in the sky ratings and think it's more than an "IS38+", and it's really not. They're clearly selling well because i'm getting at least 1/week for custom tuning, and i can tell by some of the setups and customer interactions that some people do not understand the limitations of what they purchased. We've only had a couple on the dyno, so take it with a grain of salt, but so far it looks like they make about 30whp more than an IS38 if Garrett's shaft speed limits are respected.

I have 3 or 4 active now, and in total EQT has probably tuned a dozen of them. To my knowledge we've had no problems at all, but Ed took a very scientific approach to the first few and that has given us a lot of good data to implement in all of our custom tunes.

Ultimately they are responsive, spool well, and offer a nice little bump in power over an IS38, but if the expectation is to punch in the same weight class as a lot of the hybrids, the customer is going to be disappointed. If the shaft speed limits aren't adhered to, the wheels are not going to stay on the inside for long.

 

[KyACRASH]

Personal opinions:

The S1 is a tricky turbo to tune, and there are several reports of failures even on turbos that had sensors and were never overspun, some of them being blown seals and others catastrophic. Wastegate duty is not a good indicator of headroom on small turbos in general, but on these it's especially misleading, so many of these will have the wheels blown out of them.

Between what appears to be a low tolerance for overboost, the inherent quirks of boost control on these units, and customer expectations not matching the hardware, we're going to see a lot of these fail. It's a perfect storm. People see the Garrett name and their pie in the sky ratings and think it's more than an "IS38+", and it's really not. They're clearly selling well because i'm getting at least 1/week for custom tuning, and i can tell by some of the setups and customer interactions that some people do not understand the limitations of what they purchased. We've only had a couple on the dyno, so take it with a grain of salt, but so far it looks like they make about 30whp more than an IS38 if Garrett's shaft speed limits are respected.

I have 3 or 4 active now, and in total EQT has probably tuned a dozen of them. To my knowledge we've had no problems at all, but Ed took a very scientific approach to the first few and that has given us a lot of good data to implement in all of our custom tunes.

Ultimately they are responsive, spool well, and offer a nice little bump in power over an IS38, but if the expectation is to punch in the same weight class as a lot of the hybrids, the customer is going to be disappointed. If the shaft speed limits aren't adhered to, the wheels are not going to stay on the inside for long.

Good feedback here, although unfortunate to hear about the potential issues. I know I'm not alone as someone who is looking for something more than IS38+ but no need for a vortex/hybrid.

I am an EQT fan, but honestly would have been satisfied with an OTS tune for the Garret from Unitronic or IE, however neither has been released yet. I had been thinking maybe that was an EPA setback, but after reading your post maybe they are having issues settling on a final product.

 

[Daks]

Good feedback here, although unfortunate to hear about the potential issues. I know I'm not alone as someone who is looking for something more than IS38+ but no need for a vortex/hybrid.

I am an EQT fan, but honestly would have been satisfied with an OTS tune for the Garret from Unitronic or IE, however neither has been released yet. I had been thinking maybe that was an EPA setback, but after reading your post maybe they are having issues settling on a final product.

I just went through the tuning process with @Hoon on a 'small' hybrid. The car absolutely rips and I couldn't have asked more from the tuner. Super informative, fast, knowledgeable... I could go on and on. @Hoon, out of curiosity, how does my turbo compare to this Garret?

 

[JettiGLI]

Hoon=Matt?

 

[-DK-]

Personal opinions:

The S1 is a tricky turbo to tune, and there are several reports of failures even on turbos that had sensors and were never overspun, some of them being blown seals and others catastrophic. Wastegate duty is not a good indicator of headroom on small turbos in general, but on these it's especially misleading, so many of these will have the wheels blown out of them.

Between what appears to be a low tolerance for overboost, the inherent quirks of boost control on these units, and customer expectations not matching the hardware, we're going to see a lot of these fail. It's a perfect storm. People see the Garrett name and their pie in the sky ratings and think it's more than an "IS38+", and it's really not. They're clearly selling well because i'm getting at least 1/week for custom tuning, and i can tell by some of the setups and customer interactions that some people do not understand the limitations of what they purchased. We've only had a couple on the dyno, so take it with a grain of salt, but so far it looks like they make about 30whp more than an IS38 if Garrett's shaft speed limits are respected.

I have 3 or 4 active now, and in total EQT has probably tuned a dozen of them. To my knowledge we've had no problems at all, but Ed took a very scientific approach to the first few and that has given us a lot of good data to implement in all of our custom tunes.

Ultimately they are responsive, spool well, and offer a nice little bump in power over an IS38, but if the expectation is to punch in the same weight class as a lot of the hybrids, the customer is going to be disappointed. If the shaft speed limits aren't adhered to, the wheels are not going to stay on the inside for long.

From your experience, what is the most reliable 400 WHP for the GTI (preferably without MPI)? Primary use is street and track , no drag racing. I've been following the APR turbo thread and the potential for CARB cert is attractive but not sure if the powerband is what I'd enjoy or if the turbo itself is living up to expectations. thanks

 

[dcgtimk7]

Good feedback here, although unfortunate to hear about the potential issues. I know I'm not alone as someone who is looking for something more than IS38+ but no need for a vortex/hybrid.

I am an EQT fan, but honestly would have been satisfied with an OTS tune for the Garret from Unitronic or IE, however neither has been released yet. I had been thinking maybe that was an EPA setback, but after reading your post maybe they are having issues settling on a final product.

I am curious to see how the ie and uni pmax tunes fare. Does anyone know if IE is also tuning the pmax stage 2 turbo? Yeah not everyone is looking for a hybrid turbo with some pretty old tech td06 internals.

 

[dcgtimk7]

From your experience, what is the most reliable 400 WHP for the GTI (preferably without MPI)? Primary use is street and track , no drag racing. I've been following the APR turbo thread and the potential for CARB cert is attractive but not sure if the powerband is what I'd enjoy or if the turbo itself is living up to expectations. thanks

Probably the pmax stage 1. Just get a tune that stays within the max allowed turbo speed limit. Also maybe get a tune that can add in the turbo speed sensor data to the ecu. The apr turbo is also nice for mqb owners in california if apr's turbo gets carb certified.

 

[scrllock]

Personal opinions:

The S1 is a tricky turbo to tune, and there are several reports of failures even on turbos that had sensors and were never overspun, some of them being blown seals and others catastrophic. Wastegate duty is not a good indicator of headroom on small turbos in general, but on these it's especially misleading, so many of these will have the wheels blown out of them.

Between what appears to be a low tolerance for overboost, the inherent quirks of boost control on these units, and customer expectations not matching the hardware, we're going to see a lot of these fail. It's a perfect storm. People see the Garrett name and their pie in the sky ratings and think it's more than an "IS38+", and it's really not. They're clearly selling well because i'm getting at least 1/week for custom tuning, and i can tell by some of the setups and customer interactions that some people do not understand the limitations of what they purchased. We've only had a couple on the dyno, so take it with a grain of salt, but so far it looks like they make about 30whp more than an IS38 if Garrett's shaft speed limits are respected.

I have 3 or 4 active now, and in total EQT has probably tuned a dozen of them. To my knowledge we've had no problems at all, but Ed took a very scientific approach to the first few and that has given us a lot of good data to implement in all of our custom tunes.

Ultimately they are responsive, spool well, and offer a nice little bump in power over an IS38, but if the expectation is to punch in the same weight class as a lot of the hybrids, the customer is going to be disappointed. If the shaft speed limits aren't adhered to, the wheels are not going to stay on the inside for long.

Who are you tuning for? Some transparency would be nice.

Otherwise "there are several reports" is code for "someone on the internet who may or may not be trying to sell other turbos said."

FWIW I just finished getting mine street tuned with a sensor. Will be getting it on a dyno Friday morning with logs to help inform.

 

[Daks]

Who are you tuning for? Some transparency would be nice.

Otherwise "there are several reports" is code for "someone on the internet who may or may not be trying to sell other turbos said."

FWIW I just finished getting mine street tuned with a sensor. Will be getting it on a dyno Friday morning with logs to help inform.

He has EQT in his avatar, mentioned Ed and EQT tuning them...

 

[scrllock]

He has EQT in his avatar, mentioned Ed and EQT tuning them...

Got it. Definitely no conflict of interest then.

 

[Hoon]

Got it. Definitely no conflict of interest then.

I get paid by the tune, not salary. Because there are bundle discounts for Vortex turbos with custom tunes, i actually get paid more to tune Powermaxes.

Not everything is some conspiracy.

 

[scrllock]

You get paid by EQT, who definitely make more margin selling their own brand of products vs. Garrett's. It's not a conspiracy, it's just basic informed consumerism. I would love to see actual data from turbos that were confirmed to have failed without being overspun.

 

[Daks]

You get paid by EQT, who definitely make more margin selling their own brand of products vs. Garrett's. It's not a conspiracy, it's just basic informed consumerism. I would love to see actual data from turbos that were confirmed to have failed without being overspun.

How does your Garrett feel compared to the vortex now that you have had it street tuned?

 

[Hoon]

You get paid by EQT, who definitely make more margin selling their own brand of products vs. Garrett's. It's not a conspiracy, it's just basic informed consumerism. I would love to see actual data from turbos that were confirmed to have failed without being overspun.

Where did you see me push Vortex turbos in this thread? I never said a word about any other competing turbo, you decided to make it about that. Cross shopping a Vortex and a S1 Powermax doesn't make sense, they're different products for different customers.

I also didn't say the Powermax was junk, i said they're responsive and spool well, and we have had no issues on the ones we've tuned so far.

There have been some explained (overspinning) as well as some unexplained failures. This has been reported to us by several customers as well as other tuners, but because they were not units we tuned i do not have datalogs or tune details.

I posted that solely for people to make better informed decisions based on the pros/cons of the turbo. You're really reaching on this one.

Clearly, i need to make a Matt @ EQT account, limit the things I comment on and the info i provide.

 

[Daks]

Where did you see me push Vortex turbos in this thread? I never said a word about any other competing turbo, you decided to make it about that. Cross shopping a Vortex and a S1 Powermax doesn't make sense, they're different products for different customers.

I also didn't say the Powermax was junk, i said they're responsive and spool well, and we have had no issues on the ones we've tuned so far.

There have been some explained (overspinning) as well as some unexplained failures. This has been reported to us by several customers as well as other tuners, but because they were not units we tuned i do not have datalogs or tune details.

I posted that solely for people to make better informed decisions based on the pros/cons of the turbo. You're really reaching on this one.

Clearly, i need to make a Matt @ EQT account, limit the things I comment on and the info i provide.

No, don't do that, keep on commenting about things, that's how we learn and get the best information possible. As individuals, we can ascertain whether to take that information at face value or with a grain of salt. All I can say is this, I was tuned by @Hoon for a non EQT hybrid and he provided completely unbiased opinions, actually said that it was a solid little turbo for what its intended use was, and pushed my tune to the maximum of the turbo and the setup that I had. All while hitting a crazy deadline. Keep doing you @Hoon .