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New Garrett Turbos for MQB

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
Given you know how one of your client's turbos failed, and ITGUY doesn't yet know for sure what happened to his turbo, that would make him the 290lbs guy driving the S3? And you are 0 for 2 with tuning the Powermax?

I'm not sure anyone said they knew what happened for sure.
 

gingercabrio

Ready to race!
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
Golf R, Cabrio VR6
I'm not sure anyone said they knew what happened for sure.
I have tuned 2 pmax 2260 turbos, the one thing they both had in common was boost control took quite a bit of work getting under control, more than most turbos, you have to treat these turbos like an is38 as far as the boost curve and what not. Out of the two, one of them failed, the comp wheel nut literally came off, the other one runs good in a full weight S3 with a 290lb driver and 180lb passenger did 11.5@120 on the street. Treat them like an is38 and they will do good, as hoon said, the spool is good and so is response but imo should not carry the Garrett name.
ITGUY doesn't know what happened to his turbo yet, beyond that it failed, so process of elimination makes him the S3 driver, if railroader was being serious.
 

Daks

Autocross Champion
Location
Toronto
Car(s)
GTI PP
I'm still trying to get the tune sorted.. I have 4 things not going into readiness. I'm coming from stock. My motor spun a rod, so I have a fully built motor.. only things original are the block, crank, and head. I kept the fueling stock to see how well the turbo does without any fueling upgrades. Also this is the R forum and I wasn't really going to post any information here about it since i'm a GTI.. :D
GTI, so he’s not the chub in an s3.
 

railroader

Autocross Newbie
Location
Yuma Arizona
Given you know how one of your client's turbos failed, and ITGUY doesn't yet know for sure what happened to his turbo, that would make him the 290lbs guy driving the S3? And you are 0 for 2 with tuning the
Given that you don't know what your talking about, s3 turbo is fine, the other turbo let go at 26psi, that being said sometimes turbos just let go, had nothing to do with anything. And nobody said I knew how the turbo failed so not sure where your getting you false info and all your comments were speculation, all I said was I have tuned 2 and 1 failed and 1 was in an S3 and that it ran 11.5
 

gingercabrio

Ready to race!
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
Golf R, Cabrio VR6
Given that you don't know what your talking about, s3 turbo is fine, the other turbo let go at 26psi, that being said sometimes turbos just let go, had nothing to do with anything. And nobody said I knew how the turbo failed so not sure where your getting you false info and all your comments were speculation, all I said was I have tuned 2 and 1 failed and 1 was in an S3 and that it ran 11.5
I have tuned 2 pmax 2260 turbos, the one thing they both had in common was boost control took quite a bit of work getting under control, more than most turbos, you have to treat these turbos like an is38 as far as the boost curve and what not. Out of the two, one of them failed, the comp wheel nut literally came off, the other one runs good in a full weight S3 with a 290lb driver and 180lb passenger did 11.5@120 on the street. Treat them like an is38 and they will do good, as hoon said, the spool is good and so is response but imo should not carry the Garrett name.
Compressor nut departing the shaft isn't something that 'just happens,' it's indicative of a quality problem if operating within parameters. Forgive me for not knowing what I'm talking about, I'm asking these questions because it was impossible to get the most relevant information out of ITGUY; who tuned the car. Since you tuned it, I'll ask: did you bother to install the shaft speed sensor to see what kind of RPM the turbo was at when making the requested boost in your tune?

26psi would put you at a pressure ratio of ~2.8 with no system depression. Depending on the losses in the system, the PR could approach 3. ITGUY's failure occurred in "3rd hitting 6k," but prior excursions to redline could've contributed if they caused an overspeed. At 6800rpm cramming 26psi of boost into our 122cu in engine, we're pushing just about 45lbs/min. Maybe it's a little less or little more depending on density altitude, ambient temperature, and intercooler efficiency. Likewise, a real world system loss would raise the pressure ratio up to ~3, and there's a good chance this tuned engine may rev to 7000rpm. Of course, this is all just theoretical.

45.05=((14.7+26)*(0.99)*(6800/2)*122)/(639.6*(460+120))

I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but it is at least theoretically possible to overspeed this turbo with 26psi of boost. If you've put more than 43lbs/min through this turbo at any pressure ratio, you've oversped it. We should expect some safety margin, but given all the unknown unknowns, and your own admission that boost control is difficult with these turbos, it's not hard to see potential for inadvertent operation outside the allowed envelope, especially during untested circumstances. In particular, Garrett's advertised output numbers for this turbo are right at the very edge of its operating range.

I will reserve judgement until we see OTS tunes. Garrett is in the unique, disadvantageous position of selling a bolt on turbo for this car without offering its own tuning solution. It will take some time for people to figure out how to run this thing safely and efficiently.
Garrett_Performance_2014-2018_VW_2.0_TSI_MK7_Stage1-scaled.jpg
 
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Shadowtuy

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NY
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
If the nuts are coming loose, should we check these before install, like check torque specs or something? Or is it a all at once failure kind of thing?

Sorry if dumb question.
 

gingercabrio

Ready to race!
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
Golf R, Cabrio VR6
If the nuts are coming loose, should we check these before install, like check torque specs or something? Or is it a all at once failure kind of thing?

Sorry if dumb question.
Don't mess with the nut unless you're going to rebalance the turbo.
 

Daks

Autocross Champion
Location
Toronto
Car(s)
GTI PP
Not really unique - TPC is the same, and those things are the cats meow from the reviews I've seen of their BB line.
Garrett is in the unique, disadvantageous position of selling a bolt on turbo for this car without offering its own tuning solution. It will take some time for people to figure out how to run this thing safely and efficiently.
 

JerseyDrew77

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia & NC
Car(s)
2016 TR GTI S 6MT
At the time, I was angry and didn't want anything else to do with DBV2. But in hindsight when we mod cars we should expect some issues. I had felt like 10k miles was way too short a lifespan.
To be fair, there's not a single turbo brand that's bulletproof. I popped 3 Vortex turbos, one right after another, with maybe a month in between each. I sent the first 2 back to EQT so that they could investigate and make changes but after the third one popping, I decided it was time to move on to a different turbo. My point is, you should always send it back to the original manufacturer so that they can tear it apart to see what the problem was in order to fix it or make any new updates/changes so that future models won't do the same.
 
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