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my tuned GTI suffered a catastrophic engine failure...

SnailpowerMk7

Go Kart Champion
Location
NJ
Car(s)
MK7 GTI SE 6SPD MT
Sometimes I feel like you need to get around 30k miles on a stock engine before going for the tune. So that it can at least rule out the possibility of a bad build out of the factory from VW. From there on if you had an issue, it could more than likely be tune related... I mean I'm just talking out my booty here though. I went APR stage1 at 11k miles on my Mk6... had no issues with it.

Hoping to go stage 1 this Spring. Not sure with which tuner yet though...
 

hans611

Lost
Location
Miami
Car(s)
'16 Golf R 6MT
I agree, you dont have to, but a car / engine is a sum of thousands of individual components, made by different manufactures, from different supply lines, batches, production facilities and they all had assumed defect/failure rates... its good to wait out for something to fail, specially if you are being given a warranty from VW during that period.

Its hard to hold back until later but its logically the right choice.... if you are keeping the car for a long time, I honestly dont think its too bad to enjoy it a few years with the stock power and then "upgrade" once it seems the waters are calm
 

D.Gage

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
17 Gti
I agree, you dont have to, but a car / engine is a sum of thousands of individual components, made by different manufactures, from different supply lines, batches, production facilities and they all had assumed defect/failure rates... its good to wait out for something to fail, specially if you are being given a warranty from VW during that period.

Its hard to hold back until later but its logically the right choice.... if you are keeping the car for a long time, I honestly dont think its too bad to enjoy it a few years with the stock power and then "upgrade" once it seems the waters are calm
That’s my plan, had it 3 years now and 41k and I’m ready to tune it.
 

ElectricEye

Autocross Newbie
Location
Central NJ
As soon as you tune an engine, it is running outside the parameters that VW designed it to run in, whether it be boost level or timing or whatever else is modified. Once outside those parameters, their responsibility ends based on what they state in the manual and warranty guidelines. Proving otherwise is an almost impossible feat partially because their lawyers have more money than yours and because of the way the warranty disclaimer reads.

I'll never understand how there is a culture that believes modifying new cars for more power somehow doesn't put the car outside of its warranty.
If I took my new dishwasher and rewired it for more power - Whrilpool certainly wouldn't cover it.
If I took my Toro snowblower and tuned it for more power - Toro certainly wouldn't cover it.
 
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Ezekiel81923

Autocross Champion
Location
Royersford, PA
Car(s)
2019 Volkswagen GTI
I'll never understand how their is a culture that believes modifying new cars for more power somehow doesn't put the car outside of its warranty.
If I took my new dishwasher and rewired it for more power - Whrilpool certainly wouldn't cover it.
If I took my Toro snowblower and tuned it for more power - Toro certainly wouldn't cover it.


Because 1 out of 100 get away with it and the rest of the crowd clings to that one time as proof positive
 

launchd

Drag Racing Champion
Location
New York
Car(s)
2023 M3LR, 2021 A7
Because 1 out of 100 get away with it and the rest of the crowd clings to that one time as proof positive

1 out of 100 are extremely persuasive, highly intelligent, very knowledgeable and have a good lawyer.

99 out of 100 are not these things and don't.

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Ezekiel81923

Autocross Champion
Location
Royersford, PA
Car(s)
2019 Volkswagen GTI
1 out of 100 are extremely persuasive, highly intelligent, very knowledgeable and have a good lawyer.

99 out of 100 are not these things and don't.


I agree, and I don't hate them for it. I work in customer service and the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say. Brand reputation / reviews / social media is important to companies.

That doesn't mean they're right. It just means they won.
 

The Dude

Autocross Champion
Location
PNW
Car(s)
MK7 GTI S
I'll never understand how their is a culture that believes modifying new cars for more power somehow doesn't put the car outside of its warranty.
If I took my new dishwasher and rewired it for more power - Whrilpool certainly wouldn't cover it.
If I took my Toro snowblower and tuned it for more power - Toro certainly wouldn't cover it.
Not so much a culture, but a ruling. Magnuson v. Moss. The burden of proof is on the dealership that the specific components the owner changed or modified are what caused the problem. An intake doesn't necessarily void the warranty. Neither does an exhaust. If you're tuned, but there's a metallurgical fault that existed in the block from the factory, damage may still be covered. The two examples you gave also do not necessarily mean your purchase will not be covered. It may not be covered, but a reasonable argument to a sympathetic ear can do wonders, because when it comes down to it, it's another human deciding whether or not to cover the damage, and humans can be persuaded.
 

Acadia18

Autocross Champion
Location
The Greater Boston Metropolitan Area
Car(s)
2019 Golf R
Not so much a culture, but a ruling. Magnuson v. Moss. The burden of proof is on the dealership that the specific components the owner changed or modified are what caused the problem. An intake doesn't necessarily void the warranty. Neither does an exhaust. If you're tuned, but there's a metallurgical fault that existed in the block from the factory, damage may still be covered. The two examples you gave also do not necessarily mean your purchase will not be covered. It may not be covered, but a reasonable argument to a sympathetic ear can do wonders, because when it comes down to it, it's another human deciding whether or not to cover the damage, and humans can be persuaded.

That's not what Magnuson-Moss means at all. The MMA isn't a silver bullet allowing someone to say "You have to prove my tune is what caused the failure".

Chapter 6 - We all know I’m chipped, who cares, they can’t void my warranty without proving my modifications broke the car.
Stop. Seriously, stop it right there. I hate to admit it but I used to be naive enough to think that was the case as well. If it makes you feel better most people (even “mod friendly” dealer techs) have no idea how the always misconstrued Magnuson-Moss Act applies in real life. People like to talk about it like it's some golden ticket to modify cars. People love claiming the dealership has to "PROVE" modifications caused the problem/failure because they’ve heard it over and over that it's how it all works. It's just simply not true. I’ve had the opportunity to spend some time talking with the guy who goes to court on behalf of Volkswagen in the case of buybacks, “thermal events” (when things catch fire), and warranty denials and I got to grill him on some fact vs fiction warranty stuff. The Magnuson-Moss Act goes all the way back to the 5th paragraph of chapter 1 where I said that last part was important and we'd come back to it… we’re coming back to it.

The purpose of the Magnuson-Moss Act is so legally protect a consumer from a manufacturer trying to void your warranty for using aftermarket parts or services without proving it to be the cause of the failure. The confusion seems to stem from the term "aftermarket.” Aftermarket does not mean aftermarket modifications made to a vehicle, it applies only to direct replacement and maintenance parts made by somebody other than the manufacturer. If the manufacturer tries to say your warranty is void because you got your oil changed at Jiffy Lube instead of at a dealership, the Magnuson-Moss Act would protect you and they would have to prove that the aftermarket oil change caused whatever failed to fail. If you modify their product to perform outside of it's original specified operating range they have ZERO obligation to "prove" that your modifications caused of the failure. If you push it all the way to court, it's as simple as "it wasn't designed for that” and it’s an open and shut case. It still holds true they can't deny warranty coverage on something unrelated, if you have a chipped ECM and your radio display stops working they still need to cover your radio under warranty. But, when you modify the engine to add power the burden of proof is no longer on them for ANY powertrain failure because it wasn't designed to handle the higher loads and stresses than the factory stock XXXhp provides. Legally making anything operate outside of it’s factory stock specified range that is reason enough that the manufacturer does not have to honor the warranty.

From the warranty thread that used to be stickied.
 

ITGUY

Autocross Newbie
Location
PA
Well I came in with a rash of 2.0's that broke rings on cylinder 3 so VW really couldn't argue with that many engines breaking at the same time. So yes they replaced my engine under warranty and I had mods. Also my dealership performed all my scheduled maintenance on top so I had proof of everything was done by the book.
 
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