Motul DCTF or Pentosin (OEM) FFL-2 for DSG Fluid?

[geokilla]

I am going to change my DSG fluid soon and I'm considering using the Motul DCTF instead of the OEM Pentosin FFL-2. Would this be a mistake and screw up my DSG? The Motul meets the VW spec, as well as many other specs from manufacturers that produce vehicles with dual clutch transmissions, including the Nissan GT-R R35, BMW's dual clutch transmissions, Porsche PDK, etc. Theoretically, it should be better than OEM? Or should I stick with OEM instead? I was told by Pentosin to not use FFL-4 even though it should be better than FFL-2.

I do track my car a few times a year so I want something that performs better than OEM, especially considering I sometimes get really rough shifts in and out of 1st and reverse. I do track my GTI a few times a year, usually doing a total of 3 to 4 full track days.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I would find out why you're not supposed to use FFL-4. A new DSG installed is around $7000.

 

[geokilla]

I would find out why you're not supposed to use FFL-4. A new DSG installed is around $7000.

Gmail cleared out my deleted messages but something about them not being compatible or something, which seems weird since FFL-4 is an evolution of FFL-2. It isn't VW certified according to the spec sheet. Maybe it's some agreement they have with OEM?

 

[jimlloyd40]

Gmail cleared out my deleted messages but something about them not being compatible or something, which seems weird since FFL-4 is an evolution of FFL-2. It isn't VW certified according to the spec sheet. Maybe it's some agreement they have with OEM?

No idea but I would find out.

 

[r12rex]

Motul DCTF here in my R without issues...my stock fluid was changed out around 25k. The transmission shifts are noticeably smoother...could just be the nature of new fluid, however it has been over a year since I've changed it and it is still as buttery smooth as it was when I changed it out. I drive my car fairly aggressively with drives through the canyon, no track days yet though. I have read others with success using Motul over the OEM fluid.

Kind Regards,
Ryan

 

[tonipepperoni77]

either motul, oem or liquimoly and you will be ok

 

[texan engineer]

Not fluid related, but I believe the "rough" shifting is a function of clutch engagement programming. This is most notable in high-torque gears (aka 1st and reverse) and make it seem jerky going into/out of those gears. I drove a B9 A4, which is supposed to have the same DCT, and the clutch engagement is far smoother (not as fast/aggressive).

Supposedly TCU flashes can help with that, but I have not personally tried.

But for original question, I used VW OE fluid (Pentosin?) bought from DAP when I did my DSG service. Did not think of investigating alternatives.

 

[emichel6888]

I also use Motul DCTF, been using it for about 25,000 miles now and it seems to work great, in fact getting ready to change it out again soon. You do need to do the DSG adaptation reset after replacing the DSG oil, but that should be done whenever you put fresh oil in the DSG regardless of what type you use. I did not reset the adaptation at first and you could feel the clutches grab a lot harder, then I reset the adaption and initial shifts were a little abrupt, but once the ECU learned it smoothed out better than stock IMO.
I am basically stage 2 parts with a JB4 and have run 0-60 3.6 1/4 11.8 @116 with no TCU tune, car has 45,000 miles and not a hint of slipping and it shift flawlessly, and I drive this thing hard more often than not with several road course events so... I went to this oil because a few folks said this was a good way to prevent DSG clutch slip without doing a TCU tune, and cited examples where they were slipping and just adding this oil fixed the issue. Mine never did slip as far as i can tell, but I did switch DSG oil right after turning the power up, so it seems to work very well in my experience.
It meets or exceeds all the VW specs, lots of folks are using it, and so far have not heard of a single issue.

 

[geokilla]

Do I need to do DSG adaptation after my fluid change? I replaced it with Motul DCTF.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Do I need to do DSG adaptation after my fluid change? I replaced it with Motul DCTF.

No.

 

[emichel6888]

Do I need to do DSG adaptation after my fluid change? I replaced it with Motul DCTF.

You don't need to, but I found mine shifted a bit abruptly at times with this oil, and the DSG calibration really helped in my case.

 

[JcarrollWS6]

Either of those, any quality fluid will work about the same. I noticed no difference with Motul DCTF. O.E. fluid then Changed twice with DCTF 25k intervals.
I say place the focus/mental energy on something that will absolutely make a difference - the fluid fill procedure to ensue the correct amount of fluid remains.

 

[emichel6888]

Either of those, any quality fluid will work about the same. I noticed no difference with Motul DCTF. O.E. fluid then Changed twice with DCTF 25k intervals.
I say place the focus/mental energy on something that will absolutely make a difference - the fluid fill procedure to ensue the correct amount of fluid remains.

I switched to Motul DCTF about 25,000 miles ago (planning to change again soon) and after recalibration have not had any shift issues at all, so I am pretty sure I filled it correctly. Several folks reported DSG clutch slip with stage 2 power and switching to this oil corrected or prevented this issue. I am also running stage 2 power and managed a high 11 second 1/4 mile with just a JB4 and no DSG tune for well over a year.
The implied theory is that this fluid has a somewhat different level of friction modifiers that allows for less clutch slippage, so the idea that clutch engagement characteristics can change with new or different oil seems reasonable. As to whether it is absolutely necessary to recalibrate clutch engagement may depend on a number of variables, so YMMV, but it is a very simple procedure and certainly won't hurt anything.
So for stock power any quality fluid will work, but at higher power levels there is at least anecdotal evidence to suggest this fluid will help prevent clutch slippage.

 

[geokilla]

After a few days with Motul DCTF, I noticed my DSG is still behaving a bit weird like before were shifts from D to R would be abrupt or it'll engage slow. I guess I should do the DSG adaptation again? When I did it the first time, I followed the instructions in OBDeleven and then when it said it was done, I put it in D and my car wouldn't engage in gear. I gave it a bit of revs and the engine just hung at 1,500RPM. Ended up shutting off the engine and turning it on again. Did I do the adaptation wrong?

 

[emichel6888]

After a few days with Motul DCTF, I noticed my DSG is still behaving a bit weird like before were shifts from D to R would be abrupt or it'll engage slow. I guess I should do the DSG adaptation again? When I did it the first time, I followed the instructions in OBDeleven and then when it said it was done, I put it in D and my car wouldn't engage in gear. I gave it a bit of revs and the engine just hung at 1,500RPM. Ended up shutting off the engine and turning it on again. Did I do the adaptation wrong?

When I did mine I recall that it took a long time, even when the ECU said it was done I could still hear the DSG valves being randomly actuated, so I just waited until I did not hear any activity for a good 2-3 minutes, as I recall it was a good 10-15 minutes. I think when it says it is done, it means it is done with the re initialization, the actual calibration where it learns the initial settings takes much longer. Also part of the calibration is learning under actual driving conditions, so it stays in calibration mode until it has experienced a range of driving conditions and learned the best engagement values.
The re calibration is not instantaneous, for me it took a couple of weeks of driving before it completed all the calibrations. During that time it did exhibit some strange behavior which I attributed to the calibrations process, after that the shifting has been great. It sounds like you probably did interrupt the calibration process however, but it might complete that process during normal driving, you may just need to give it more time.
Did you follow the guide lines in the Ross tech instructions? http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/6-Speed_Direct_Shift_Gearbox_(DSG/02E)

Prerequisites:

• Fluid Temperature 30...100 °C (86...210 °F), see Measuring Blocks, Group 019. (Fluid Level needs to be correct!)
• Selector Lever in P
• Ignition ON
• Engine ON (Idling) for one minute or more
• Brake Pedal operated (hold for the whole procedure)
• Throttle Pedal not operated
• Cruise control is switched OFF

NOTE: Be sure to perform the following steps in the sequence shown, followed by the defined test drive.

Defined Test Drive
Suggested test drive after replacing the mechatronic or successful basic setting.

Prerequisites:

• Fluid Temperature 30...100 °C (86...210 °F), see Measuring Blocks, Group 019.
• Do Not use Cruise Control.

Drive in Tiptronic Mode from stand still up to 6th Gear.
While doing that make sure to drive in Gears 3 or 5 for approx. 5 minutes and also in 4 or 6 for approx. 5 minutes.
The engine speed window for all gears is 1200 - 3500 RPM (for clutch calibration).
Perform one sharp braking followed by a full throttle acceleration (oil return check) while in Drive, Not Tiptronic Mode.
Evaluate creep and starting-off points.
Check for leaks.

NOTE: If the test drive cannot be performed in the recommended way or the necessary time, any remaining adaptations will be performed automatically during normal driving.

Special Notes

• Some modules do not require the use if the [ON/OFF/Next] button. If an Error is displayed after clicking the button, or the Basic Settings status does not switch to On, let the selected group and procedure finish on its own.
• It is normal for the transmission to make noise while the tolerances are adapting. Do not exit or abort the Basic Settings sequence prematurely if you hear clacking noises.
• Customers with TDI's have reported that an RPM range of 2000-2500 rpm is sufficient.

Well based on that special note, maybe you should try it again, especially if you did not follow the guidelines in this procedure.