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Mk7 vs Mk8

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
It's kind of like meeting a nice, intelligent, funny, strong, and attractive person who enjoys your hobbies... Who refuses to brush their teeth.

You get all that, and yet there's still a constant issue that's just beneath the surface, killing the mood. :ROFLMAO:
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
It's amusing, I've driven many of those cars, and one of the absolute worst cars across an intersection remains any STI. I absolutely hate their clutch and throttle programming. I realize the later WRX has a 2.5L engine, but they still have a similarly lazy feel to them below 4k rpm and feel like mid 90's turbo charged cars, instead of like modern ones with plenty of low end torque.

What's interesting is that your GTI is by far the quickest thing on that list, barring the, I presume, 928 GTS, that was still a mid 5 second car, so nothing more than half a second ahead of a bone stock GTI, and about as long as it's taken to read to here faster than the poor Primera/G20.

Remind me, you're bog stock? Stock tires? Still have the CDV? No tune? Stock dogbone, motor and transmission mounts? You can help the feel, if you care, but I'm also getting a pretty strong vibe that you're just not in the correct car. Sell soon, because like the Mk8 or not, it will absolutely drop our resale values. Hell, even just the warranty change and LCI from 17 to 18 had about a $3k impact on me when my 17 was totaled.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
It's amusing, I've driven many of those cars, and one of the absolute worst cars across an intersection remains any STI. I absolutely hate their clutch and throttle programming. I realize the later WRX has a 2.5L engine, but they still have a similarly lazy feel to them below 4k rpm and feel like mid 90's turbo charged cars, instead of like modern ones with plenty of low end torque.

What's interesting is that your GTI is by far the quickest thing on that list, barring the, I presume, 928 GTS, that was still a mid 5 second car, so nothing more than half a second ahead of a bone stock GTI, and about as long as it's taken to read to here faster than the poor Primera/G20.

Remind me, you're bog stock? Stock tires? Still have the CDV? No tune? Stock dogbone, motor and transmission mounts? You can help the feel, if you care, but I'm also getting a pretty strong vibe that you're just not in the correct car. Sell soon, because like the Mk8 or not, it will absolutely drop our resale values. Hell, even just the warranty change and LCI from 17 to 18 had about a $3k impact on me when my 17 was totaled.

The STI has gearing issues around town, as well. The WRX isn't as bad, but it's certainly not ideal in later years. They have a stranger clutch than the GTI, but it's more direct. Overall they feel more dirty; more like tanks that can be abused to hell and back, and I do like that quite a bit, but the later models haven't really captured my imagination the same as the early US imports. They're certainly lazy, and you have to slap them around and wake them up. The rev hang isn't quite as intrusive, though it's indeed present.

I don't really consider them competition on paper, though; not for the Golf. These are two cars with drastically different personalities; and in my brain are two different driving styles always fighting with one another. If I bought a WRX or STI, I'd lift it immediately and smooth it out a bit.

I get a kick out of 928s. I like the engine, the gearbox, the handling, the ride quality, the interior (for the year, anyway), the layout... I'm of the unpopular opinion that it's the best car Porsche ever made. I liked the body better without the flares, but whatever. It didn't really bother me. It was quick, but smooth. The GTI is technically almost in the same ballpark so far as 0-60, but the experience of getting there sucks.

The G20T (Touring) was a nasty little beast. I sold that to make room for the GTI, and really shouldn't have. Rides like a Cadillac, handles like a BMW, shifts like a Miata, and has room for cargo with a proper limited slip diff. In defiance of the Titanic turning radius, you can get those things damned near flat sideways while drinking a soda and pull it out with one arm. Damn that was a good car. Mine was a bit of a POS that a family member got rid of, but I'd been waiting for it. I knew it would be available eventually. :ROFLMAO:

I'm stock. I've done the VCDS tweaks and it made a dramatic improvement, but it's still not quite there. The tires do limit the car, but it's fine, in that respect. There's not much point messing with the clutch unless I change the flywheel, which I find much more annoying. May as well have a lazy clutch if I've got a lazy flywheel. The car is pretty idiot-proof. Anyone can drive it; and that's kind of the problem. One would assume the GTI is the performance pack that gets that crap out of the way, but there needs to be another package on top of that.

Be Porsche. Charge people extra for removing things, and sell them a better car.

Did I buy the wrong car? Perhaps. I do feel limited, but then again what else is there? I wanted to spend twenty five to thirty grand or so on something to keep me going for a while as I recover from health stuff, and I wanted a new car with a warranty so I wouldn't have to mess with it. I also needed cargo space; which pretty much leaves me at the Subaru, the Golf... The rest of the lot really aren't in the same class. Once the GTI is moving, it's a hell of a comfortable ride. I almost increased the budget, but decided to stick to my guns.

I'm also physically fucked up, and the Golf is much more comfortable, as well as astronomically easier to get into and out of regularly. The Subaru requires comfort work, and the Golf requires performance work. No free lunch under 40k, apparently.

If that rev hang weren't a thing, this would be a different car entirely. Unfortunately, I'm not going to do anything about that.

I think there will be enough hipsters around to keep the 7/7.5 values reasonable for a while. I've got a 2019 S in white silver metallic with a manual transmission. If anything GTI will resist depreciation at least a little bit, it'll be that. It's one reason I picked that color, but as it turns out I really like that damned color. Gorgeous vehicle all around, in my opinion.

Nobody really makes the correct car for me at that price point; not anymore, anyway. It's all about mileage and tech. I don't give a rat's ass about either, and the tech annoys me; so there's no benefit in that stuff for me.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
I did try to design my perfect "everyday" car, but Land Rover isn't going to listen. :ROFLMAO:

outrider.jpg


I had so much trouble getting the bodywork sorted that I kind of gave up on the setting. That's only the third car I've photoshopped, so it's not great work, but from a packaging perspective and platform perspective, it's legit. They could build it as pictured. I made sure of that. Yes, the wheels are crooked. No, I'm never going to fix them. Haha!

Yup. I went for an AWD 'ute with gravel-eating intentions. I do think that would sell, though. :ROFLMAO:
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
Reading your posts is a bit like hearing my thoughts. You hate tech, but you've ordered a Cybertruck?

Just kill the CDV, it's an hour of work if you really take your time and clean things back up nicely. It just makes the connection clearer. There's still the swirl valve, but I'm okay with part. I don't mind the DM flywheel. It will get the axe when my clutch needs replacement, but I've had a lot of cars with them and am pretty used to their tradeoffs. I don't find that much throttle hold, at least compared to any other DI motor I've had. No, it doesn't rev like an S54, but nothing does these days.

I love the original 928's, chrome window trim and all. The last run was cool in it's own way, but a bit of a porker by then. Plus the cylinder heads in the fenders just seemed like a maintenance nightmare.

I don't see the GTI as an actual performance car, at least not in the terms of an M, STI or Type R. I do wish the R had gone that route, being a more raw and direct car, but that's not how it went. I'm not sure that you can really get the sort of direct, unfiltered feel you seem to be looking for from a fwd family car chassis. The same reason an M3 never feels like a 911, its roots are too tied to the base car. Things like Porsches are much more free to offer a true drivers car because they don't also have to stick a 1.4L in it with a torsen beam rear axle and rear drums. There's a lot of ground being covered by an MQB chassis, and there ultimately has to be a lot of parts sharing that will either be too aggressive for the basic cars or too soft for the sporty versions.

Personally, for a kid hauler, food recovery device, bike transport and occassional ski transit vehicle, the car works darned well. If an M2 was a fat guy or two lighter, I'd likely have one of those instead, with a manual, and a deleted CDV. But they're not, and I need rear windows that open for the dog. So fwd won this round, but it certainly has compromises, with or without Haldex, and it sounds like you're suffering from a little bit of that.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
I did try to design my perfect "everyday" car, but Land Rover isn't going to listen. :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 167064

I had so much trouble getting the bodywork sorted that I kind of gave up on the setting. That's only the third car I've photoshopped, so it's not great work, but from a packaging perspective and platform perspective, it's legit. They could build it as pictured. I made sure of that. Yes, the wheels are crooked. No, I'm never going to fix them. Haha!

Yup. I went for an AWD 'ute with gravel-eating intentions. I do think that would sell, though. :ROFLMAO:
I think you can probably get a heck of a deal on some close out Holden Utes right about now.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
Reading your posts is a bit like hearing my thoughts. You hate tech, but you've ordered a Cybertruck?

Just kill the CDV, it's an hour of work if you really take your time and clean things back up nicely. It just makes the connection clearer. There's still the swirl valve, but I'm okay with part. I don't mind the DM flywheel. It will get the axe when my clutch needs replacement, but I've had a lot of cars with them and am pretty used to their tradeoffs. I don't find that much throttle hold, at least compared to any other DI motor I've had. No, it doesn't rev like an S54, but nothing does these days.

I love the original 928's, chrome window trim and all. The last run was cool in it's own way, but a bit of a porker by then. Plus the cylinder heads in the fenders just seemed like a maintenance nightmare.

I don't see the GTI as an actual performance car, at least not in the terms of an M, STI or Type R. I do wish the R had gone that route, being a more raw and direct car, but that's not how it went. I'm not sure that you can really get the sort of direct, unfiltered feel you seem to be looking for from a fwd family car chassis. The same reason an M3 never feels like a 911, its roots are too tied to the base car. Things like Porsches are much more free to offer a true drivers car because they don't also have to stick a 1.4L in it with a torsen beam rear axle and rear drums. There's a lot of ground being covered by an MQB chassis, and there ultimately has to be a lot of parts sharing that will either be too aggressive for the basic cars or too soft for the sporty versions.

Personally, for a kid hauler, food recovery device, bike transport and occassional ski transit vehicle, the car works darned well. If an M2 was a fat guy or two lighter, I'd likely have one of those instead, with a manual, and a deleted CDV. But they're not, and I need rear windows that open for the dog. So fwd won this round, but it certainly has compromises, with or without Haldex, and it sounds like you're suffering from a little bit of that.

Do your thoughts go on forever and lead nowhere like my posts? :ROFLMAO:

Ha! The Cybertruck is me thinking I'm being clever gaming the market. I figure if I have to deal with this tech constantly, I may as well get 0-60 in less than three seconds out of it and 16 inches of ground clearance from the company that made it's name in tech. Can't have what I want? Fine. I'll get the best of what I don't want. :ROFLMAO:

I agree on the 928. You might see a bit of 928 in that Land Rover concept I tried. Yeah, it had gained quite a bit of weight and complication by the time I bought mine, but it still had it where it counted. I never had to work on the engine, so I don't know about maintenance, but just looking at it... I don't think I'd have found the work enjoyable.

I'll look into the CDV, but at the moment I think the clutch itself isn't too out of line with how the vehicle wants to be driven. I think one of my biggest issues with the car is in the marketing. It's billed as something it's most certainly not. All the reviews paint a picture it just can't color in, and even a test drive wouldn't have shown these issues as readily; because one would assume some of this is just breaking in, and some of it is just driving it wrong for the first few miles.

Golfs have no business being tested against the WRX and Type-R; and yet that's how they're presented by everyone out there.

As you've noted, the packaging and overall ownership benefit is outstanding. It's absolutely a hell of a lot of car for the money; but I'm getting that "Caymen feeling" from it; like they nerfed it to make Audi retain relevance in that segment. If this were just a little more analog, I'd go so far as to say they could slap a Porsche badge on the thing. The Golf is an engineering and packaging triumph, no question; and the fact that it achieves all that in it's weight class...

While it's fat as hell next to older cars (only a couple hundred pounds lighter than that 67 Impala four door hard top, actually), it's actually pretty impressive nowadays. I'd have expected it to tip the scales around 3,600.

Just because it's on my desktop, here's the other half of my brain dreaming up a car:

horizon.jpg


I'd imagined the Triton V10 having one last outing, mated to a CVT, to really reel in the horizon on longer trips; hence the name. I think Lincoln will listen about as much as Land Rover will. Regardless, there's the side that's always fighting with the side that wants something like that Outrider. This is the side that loves that Golf interior and comfort; and it's the side that's winning a little more lately, as I'm not so hot physically.

I actually considered having that one company build me a Holden ute. Somehow or another, you provide them a GTO... I don't remember anymore. Somehow you can get one here.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
I guess it just depends on which Cayman we're talking about? I've tracked a Cayman R and driven the first GT4 and certainly don't feel any Audi in either. Sure, the 718 is a bit goofy, but they're already correcting those sins with the GTS.

But for the Golf, I sure like that it's so much smaller than the STI or CTR, both of those cars are just a lot larger than what I really want. I'd actually love a Polo GTI if we could get them here.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
I guess it just depends on which Cayman we're talking about? I've tracked a Cayman R and driven the first GT4 and certainly don't feel any Audi in either. Sure, the 718 is a bit goofy, but they're already correcting those sins with the GTS.

But for the Golf, I sure like that it's so much smaller than the STI or CTR, both of those cars are just a lot larger than what I really want. I'd actually love a Polo GTI if we could get them here.

Very early; tipping well into the original Boxter era. That car (base model for base model) was better than it needed to be in their product line. On one hand, it kind of hinted at what it could do if unleashed by itself, and on the other hand hinted at what the 911 could be if it was allowed to skip an evolution and just back all the way over the engine. :ROFLMAO:

So far as the Golf is concerned, I do really enjoy the size, aside from being stuck around all these giant pickups and unable to see past them pulling out of parking lots; but that's any small car nowadays. Now, I've certainly had cars in this size category, but the Golf does it differently, somehow. Parking spaces may as well be football fields to this thing; and it's not like it's a sub-compact. The packaging is just that damned good.

Last night though, I had to go out for a bit. It was raining, and people are stupid and irritable as hell. At once they want to drive everywhere slowly, and then become impatient off the line. Weaving, slamming on brakes, generally doing what they want in heavy town traffic and complaining about everyone else. I've been honked at three times since I got this car; and had to get out of someone's way last night.

It's never happened before. Never been honked at in the civilized world in my life until I bought this thing; and damned if I'm not going to figure out why the brakes are intermittently grabby whenever it starts raining, too. :rolleyes:

Thought I was crazy for a little while there, but nope. That's a thing. It's slight, but it's there.

I did pay some careful attention to the clutch delay. Yeah, it might be nice to sort that. It feels almost like a tiny bit of drive-line slack to me, and I wasn't really paying attention to that part; hadn't put two and two together just yet, as I was worrying about other factors. It's been bugging me more than I thought, and makes it feel a bit fragile.
 
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KevinC

Autocross Champion
Location
The land of Wyatt Earp & Doc Holliday
Car(s)
'19 Golf R, '21 M2c
My 2c on the clutch delay valve thing.. in the Z4M community, removing the CDV has been a "thing" since the car was introduced. When I had my first one, I drove it a few years before finally removing mine. If there was any difference at all, I could barely perceive it. Certainly wasn't the holy grail of drivetrain improvements that some promoted it as being, at least not for me. Now I'm on #2, and sure enough, original owner also had removed it, as well as adding a clutch stop. Still not an easy car to drive smoothly, though you learn it and it's not a problem. Toss the keys to someone who's never driven it though, and chances are they struggle with it.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
My 2c on the clutch delay valve thing.. in the Z4M community, removing the CDV has been a "thing" since the car was introduced. When I had my first one, I drove it a few years before finally removing mine. If there was any difference at all, I could barely perceive it. Certainly wasn't the holy grail of drivetrain improvements that some promoted it as being, at least not for me. Now I'm on #2, and sure enough, original owner also had removed it, as well as adding a clutch stop. Still not an easy car to drive smoothly, though you learn it and it's not a problem. Toss the keys to someone who's never driven it though, and chances are they struggle with it.

Yeah, I can feel it in there, but knowing what it is allows me to ignore it. When I first thought it was drive-line slack it was really irritating, but it's easy enough to drive around. That's probably my lowest mechanical concern given how slow the revs drop anyway. There's not exactly any need to hurry when shifting. For some reason, though, it doesn't quite behave well in reverse from a stop; especially when raining.

I don't know what the heck this car's problem is with rain, but nothing seems to work as smoothly when it's wet out. I don't think I'll ever fully understand those wipers, either. :ROFLMAO:

If I removed that clutch nonsense the car would indeed feel more direct; and it probably would indeed be a massive increase in engagement for me (I'm picky about that, as you can tell). The problem is, I don't know how long I'll keep it, and I don't want to get in there changing things around. It would also be a physical challenge I need to save for work on another car I need to finish up and sell. I just don't have enough energy to go around.

Not worried about the VCDS stuff for an eventual sale, because I can just bring it back to factory in a few minutes. Thankfully that's made a huge improvement. The clutch stop is nice from a laziness perspective, but of course they always are.
 

KevinC

Autocross Champion
Location
The land of Wyatt Earp & Doc Holliday
Car(s)
'19 Golf R, '21 M2c
Somehow the clutch in my '19 R seems to have more "feel" than my '16 did. Also doesn't have the same slight stumble from a standing start that the old car did. Then I get in the other car and it's like learning how to drive all over again for a few blocks. That car is SO analog while the R is so video game-like in comparison.
 

Panzer7

New member
Location
Edison NJ
Manuals engage the driver, automatics not so much. On mitsubishis, I think it's payback for all those Zeros and Bettys we shot down during the war. LOL!
 

Dog Dad Wagon

Autocross Champion
Location
Go Birds
Car(s)
16 Touareg TDI
What would you rather purchase - 2020 Mk7 or 2021 Mk 8... Mk8 will supposedly be priced a bit higher than the Mk7 and have around 242 hp. I dont think an increase from 228 hp to 242 will make much of a difference in performance. The difference in the exterior design is negligible. But personally, I think the dashboard of the Mk7 is WAY nicer than the Mk8. The digital dash of the Mk8 just does not look right in my opinion. Quite frankly, the digital gauges are unappealing and the strange angles of the minimalist dashboard quite off-putting. Are there any other improvements to the Mk8 that would make it a worthwhile purchase over the Mk7... fuel efficiency or handling perhaps+

*edit: just realized im super late to the party lol.

Did you just say the difference in the exterior design is "negligible" ??? The MK8 is pretty hideous. Looks like a Hyundai, before they bought all of VW's designers.

The MK8 is also MQB like the MK7, and the MK8 doesn't have an improved VAQ to my understanding, so other than the improved turbocharger (which, admittedly is likely going to be good for ~350WHP at Stage 1), MK8 is a very slight evolution. Uglier exterior, uglier interior with capacitive steering wheel controls, likely negligible change in suspension dynamics.

I think the MK7/MK7.5 GTI is the pinnacle for GTIs, I wouldn't get a MK8. I say get the MK7.
 
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bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
The 8 looks better to me (and nothing like a Hyundai, let's not be silly), but then I've never been a huge fan of the 7 or 7.5, even though I've owned both. The aluminum front subframe would be a nice to have though. With the R power going up so much, it will be interesting to learn if they might have possibly used a stronger clutch for the GTI and R on the Mk8, although that seems unlikely.
 
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