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Max Power-Stock Fuel System-E30???

SugarMouth

SugarMouth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Nevada
How much power can be made on E30 with the stock fuel system before you run out of fuel?

Anyone with larger turbos running E30 on stock fuel? Results?

With a larger turbo and a stock fuel system is 91 or E30 a better option?
 
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Hoon

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
SugarMouth said:
How much power can be made on E30 with the stock fuel system before you run out of fuel?

Anyone with larger turbos running E30 on stock fuel? Results?

With a larger turbo and a stock fuel system is 91 or E30 a better option?
Click to expand...

You can make about 400whp on E30 with stock fueling. It will vary based on a bunch of factors. That's probably on the edge though. I made 381whp on E30 in very poor conditions, tried to bump to E40 and the rail pressure plummeted. In cooler temps I'd probably lose pressure on E35. That doesn't give you any margin for error on the blend.

If you move more air than an IS38, you will need to address the fuel system in some way to run E30.

91 sucks pretty badly, so E30 is probably better, but you won't be able to fuel all the air the turbo can provide. On the flip side, you can fuel a lot more air on gasoline, but with 91 it's not going to take any timing.

The HPFP has drawbacks, but there are IS38 guys running full E85 with just a $400 HPFP. That mod would allow you to use the potential of the turbo with enough octane to put some timing in the car. Running high boost with low octane is dangerous, even if you keep the timing low. There's just not a large margin for error. Personally id rather have the octane and the timing, and keep the boost lower if you run out of fuel pump. Keep an eye on it though, when you hit the pump limits rail pressure goes down FAST.
 
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O

OBP

Go Kart Newbie
Location
ChiRaq
Hoon said:
I made 381whp on E30 in very poor conditions, tried to bump to E40 and the rail pressure plummeted. In cooler temps I'd probably lose pressure on E35. That doesn't give you any margin for error on the blend.
Click to expand...

How are you tuned, boost request or torque request? If boost request, I agree that your fuel pressure would likely drop in colder temps. If it's torque request AND you're hitting that number in the heat, I don't see why your rail pressure would drop since the engine will hit that torque number with less boost. You can argue that you'd need more fuel in hotter temps to run a tad richer to limit knock.
 
SugarMouth

SugarMouth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Nevada
Hoon said:
You can make about 400whp on E30 with stock fueling. It will vary based on a bunch of factors. That's probably on the edge though. I made 381whp on E30 in very poor conditions, tried to bump to E40 and the rail pressure plummeted. In cooler temps I'd probably lose pressure on E35. That doesn't give you any margin for error on the blend.

If you move more air than an IS38, you will need to address the fuel system in some way to run E30.

91 sucks pretty badly, so E30 is probably better, but you won't be able to fuel all the air the turbo can provide. On the flip side, you can fuel a lot more air on gasoline, but with 91 it's not going to take any timing.

The HPFP has drawbacks, but there are IS38 guys running full E85 with just a $400 HPFP. That mod would allow you to use the potential of the turbo with enough octane to put some timing in the car. Running high boost with low octane is dangerous, even if you keep the timing low. There's just not a large margin for error. Personally id rather have the octane and the timing, and keep the boost lower if you run out of fuel pump. Keep an eye on it though, when you hit the pump limits rail pressure goes down FAST.
Click to expand...

Exactly the info I was looking for!

I'll be installing a L450 Hybrid. What would you prefer to do, tune with E30 in the tank or straight 91? I'm at 5200ft.
 
Hoon

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
OBP said:
How are you tuned, boost request or torque request? If boost request, I agree that your fuel pressure would likely drop in colder temps. If it's torque request AND you're hitting that number in the heat, I don't see why your rail pressure would drop since the engine will hit that torque number with less boost. You can argue that you'd need more fuel in hotter temps to run a tad richer to limit knock.
Click to expand...

Torque tables.

In theory you're 100% correct, but the reality is the ECUs boost increases in the heat do not fully make up for the lower air density.

Even with a load based boost control, you'll still go faster and make more uncorrected HP in better air.

AFR is mostly constant, timing is pulled in the heat. Prior to the HPFP I just put in, I would not have had the capacity to run richer AFRs.
 
rafycotto

rafycotto

Ready to race!
Im running boss600 with completely stock fuel system. E15 max out my fuel rail pressure

Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk
 
P

pieguy

Ready to race!
Location
Bay Area
rafycotto said:
Im running boss600 with completely stock fuel system. E15 max out my fuel rail pressure

Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Just curious, do you know what whp/wtq you're pushing on e15 with stock fueling and boss 600?
 
rafycotto

rafycotto

Ready to race!
pieguy said:
Just curious, do you know what whp/wtq you're pushing on e15 with stock fueling and boss 600?
Click to expand...
Don't know, but definitely slower than the stock turbo.

Stock turbo= 357whp/393wtq on e35 (17+ timing and 27+psi)

Boss600= E15 (5 deg timing and 24psi)

Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk
 
P

pieguy

Ready to race!
Location
Bay Area
If you don't do LPFP when you install a BOSS 600, I guess you really handicap yourself. Seems like at minimum you need walbro 450 + HPFP or optimally a LPFP+MPI when you're larger than hybrid.
 
GTI Jake

GTI Jake

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
pieguy said:
If you don't do LPFP when you install a BOSS 600, I guess you really handicap yourself. Seems like at minimum you need walbro 450 + HPFP or optimally a LPFP+MPI when you're larger than hybrid.
Click to expand...

I’m sure he will, but then the limiting factor will be the bottom end unless you wanna play roulette with the connecting rods

It’s a slippery slope, but a Boss 600 sorted out Golf R with all the necessary supporting mods would be absolutely insane. Totally worth it if you have the funds, it’ll beat up on a lot of cars way above and beyond what you’d have into the project total
 
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