Looking for info on IE's turbo kit

[Ed @ EQT]

Off the shelf turbo? I've never heard of that distinction before.

I just mean it has been widely available to everyone. It's not specific or proprietary to IE.

-- Ed

 

[gingercabrio]

There is no "IE Turbo Kit". They just made an OTS tune for a widely available off the shelf turbo. There have been plenty of results posted with the GT2260 turbo and I imagine IE's results will be similar.

-- Ed

The PowerMax thread has a wide variance of results depending on the supporting mods, and it'll be interesting to see something standardized. What makes it an "IE Turbo Kit" is the expectation that you'll use all of the required hard parts available from IE along with their software. Whether it's due to supporting mods, aggressive tuning, or misleading marketing, IE is claiming to make substantially more torque with this turbo than anybody else, including Garrett.

People generally accept the idea of a "CTS turbo kit" for the Mk7s even though they use Garrett turbos. If you Google "APR turbo kit EA888," the third result, right after their new DTR unit, is their kit based on the EFR7163.

 

[Dr Dad]

The PowerMax thread has a wide variance of results depending on the supporting mods, and it'll be interesting to see something standardized. What makes it an "IE Turbo Kit" is the expectation that you'll use all of the required hard parts available from IE along with their software. Whether it's due to supporting mods, aggressive tuning, or misleading marketing, IE is claiming to make substantially more torque with this turbo than anybody else, including Garrett.

People generally accept the idea of a "CTS turbo kit" for the Mk7s even though they use Garrett turbos. If you Google "APR turbo kit EA888," the third result, right after their new DTR unit, is their kit based on the EFR7163.

They do require a HPFP which IIRC is not a requirement for other tuners using the same turbo. That could explain some of the performance improvements they claim.

 

[gingercabrio]

They do require a HPFP which IIRC is not a requirement for other tuners using the same turbo. That could explain some of the performance improvements they claim.

Yes, that's interesting. They used to claim on their page for the turbo itself that you needed an IE HPFP. Now on the page for the tune, it just specifies "HPFP Upgrade," and the page for the turbo doesn't even mention the HPFP anymore, yet it also says the tune is still coming soon. The plethora of inaccurate information about their own products on their website is a little fishy.

 

[Dr Dad]

Yes, that's interesting. They used to claim on their page for the turbo itself that you needed an IE HPFP. Now on the page for the tune, it just specifies "HPFP Upgrade," and the page for the turbo doesn't even mention the HPFP anymore, yet it also says the tune is still coming soon. The plethora of inaccurate information about their own products on their website is a little fishy.

Agreed, it's pretty disappointing to see.
(Especially for me, I've quite enjoyed their tunes and was considering going with them for a bigger turbo).

 

[Ed @ EQT]

The PowerMax thread has a wide variance of results depending on the supporting mods, and it'll be interesting to see something standardized. What makes it an "IE Turbo Kit" is the expectation that you'll use all of the required hard parts available from IE along with their software. Whether it's due to supporting mods, aggressive tuning, or misleading marketing, IE is claiming to make substantially more torque with this turbo than anybody else, including Garrett.

People generally accept the idea of a "CTS turbo kit" for the Mk7s even though they use Garrett turbos. If you Google "APR turbo kit EA888," the third result, right after their new DTR unit, is their kit based on the EFR7163.

The other kits you mentioned either include their own housings and/or downpipes and hard parts to make those turbos bolt on without modification. Garrett already did that with the 2260, so IE is just using an off the shelf part with their own tuning. Nothing wrong with this... I'm just saying its not an "IE Turbo kit". Regardless of semantics, I wouldn't expect anything out of the ordinary. The 2260 is quite limited in overall power output and is very susceptible to overspinning if the tune is overly aggressive. I always tune them with reasonable limits in place and haven't had any issues. But I've seen more than a few people with failures with other tunes, mostly in other countries. People should keep their expectations realistic when it comes to this turbo.

-- Ed

 

[dcgtimk7]

Yes, that's interesting. They used to claim on their page for the turbo itself that you needed an IE HPFP. Now on the page for the tune, it just specifies "HPFP Upgrade," and the page for the turbo doesn't even mention the HPFP anymore, yet it also says the tune is still coming soon. The plethora of inaccurate information about their own products on their website is a little fishy.

They probably just need update their website. They aren't the first tuner to post misleading information. Their pmax stage 1 tune is probably great for an ots tune. Not everyone wants to log and pay extra for a "protune". Also not everyone wants a hybrid turbo. The upgrade in performance from is38 to pmax stage 1 is similar to the upgrade from is20 to is38. I wish they offered mpi for their pmax stage 1 tune.

 

[gingercabrio]

They probably just need update their website. They aren't the first tuner to post misleading information. Their pmax stage 1 tune is probably great for an ots tune. Not everyone wants to log and pay extra for a "protune". Also not everyone wants a hybrid turbo. The upgrade in performance from is38 to pmax stage 1 is similar to the upgrade from is20 to is38. I wish they offered mpi for their pmax stage 1 tune.

Totally agreed on the disappointment with a lack of MPI offering. I may end up going with Stratified for exactly that reason. I was also excited for the Pmax 1 specifically because it seemed more concerned with flow than pressure ratio, as in, you get 70hp more than the IS38 at the top end, but without too much extra torque down low, or any extra lag. It's torque that breaks things, and Garrett's initial dyno chart at 419 ft-lbs on 104 octane lead me to suspect that a 91 octane tune could get by with the Sachs 405 ft-lbs rated clutch. Not so when IE is claiming 500ft-lbs on pump gas with their kit.

 

[dcgtimk7]

Totally agreed on the disappointment with a lack of MPI offering. I may end up going with Stratified for exactly that reason. I was also excited for the Pmax 1 specifically because it seemed more concerned with flow than pressure ratio, as in, you get 70hp more than the IS38 at the top end, but without too much extra torque down low, or any extra lag. It's torque that breaks things, and Garrett's initial dyno chart at 419 ft-lbs on 104 octane lead to me suspect that a 91 octane tune could get by with the Sachs 405 ft-lbs rated clutch. Not so when IE is claiming 500ft-lbs on pump gas with their kit.

Maybe wait to see what uni does. I heard uni is going to offer mpi for their pmax 1 and 2 tunes.

 

[Ed @ EQT]

Totally agreed on the disappointment with a lack of MPI offering. I may end up going with Stratified for exactly that reason. I was also excited for the Pmax 1 specifically because it seemed more concerned with flow than pressure ratio, as in, you get 70hp more than the IS38 at the top end, but without too much extra torque down low, or any extra lag. It's torque that breaks things, and Garrett's initial dyno chart at 419 ft-lbs on 104 octane lead to me suspect that a 91 octane tune could get by with the Sachs 405 ft-lbs rated clutch. Not so when IE is claiming 500ft-lbs on pump gas with their kit.

Where are you seeing 70hp more than an IS38? I've seen 30-40whp over an IS38 all out.

-- Ed

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Where are you seeing 70hp more than an IS38? I've seen 30-40whp over an IS38 all out.

-- Ed

Probably from taking IEs inflated dyno charts or garrets *calculated engine hp ratings based on their wheel dyno results…

Any real apples to apples comparisons I’ve seen mirror what your real world first hand reference above notes.

 

[dcgtimk7]

Probably from taking IEs inflated dyno charts or garrets *calculated engine hp ratings based on their wheel dyno results…

Any real apples to apples comparisons I’ve seen mirror what your real world first hand reference above notes.

I think it was this post. https://www.instagram.com/p/CdvvYWvr5xT/. IE's dyno doesn't seem super inflated compared to other tuners. Plus they wouldn't be the first to post inflated dyno numbers.

 

[gingercabrio]

Where are you seeing 70hp more than an IS38? I've seen 30-40whp over an IS38 all out.

-- Ed

https://www.garrettmotion.com/racin...i-2-0-l-tsi-mk7-stage-1-stage-2-turbocharger/

Stratified got 369whp running the Pmax 1 with pump gas on their dyno, compared to 320whp with the IS38. 49hp at the wheels on a dyno that reads a bit low probably works out fairly closely to 70hp at the crank. I don't put much faith in chassis dynos however.

Ed, I think you need to accept that not everyone wants a TD06. There is a market for small gains with no losses. I've yet to see a hybrid that fulfills the later part of that statement in terms of boost threshold and reliability. What's impressive about this turbo, and I'm sure it wasn't by any mistake, is how little of the green line is under the blue line in the above chart. There is no tradeoff for this turbo, if it's tuned properly. This turbo doesn't compete with hybrids, that's what the Pmax 2 is for, and that unit is utterly disappointing.

Edit: yes, I know the Garrett chart is for 104 octane. It's also ~25% more than 70hp.

 

[scrllock]

https://www.garrettmotion.com/racin...i-2-0-l-tsi-mk7-stage-1-stage-2-turbocharger/

Stratified got 369whp running the Pmax 1 with pump gas on their dyno, compared to 320whp with the IS38. 49hp at the wheels on a dyno that reads a bit low probably works out fairly closely to 70hp at the crank. I don't put much faith in chassis dynos however.

The nice thing about stratified's results is they have lots of good data on other turbos on the same dyno for comparison. And they're not trying to sell their own marked up turbos.
I know my GT2260s made 355/400 whp on 93/e70 on a linked AWD dynojet (STD correction), but I don't have any IS38 results to compare to. I know my timing is conservative compared to say, an EQT IS38 tune.

I would love to see if anyone can provide an example of a GT2260s failing without overspinning. If you're hitting 29psi you're likely over the 185k rpm limit. Logs I've been able to track down from failed ones crossed that threshold.

 

[gingercabrio]

The nice thing about stratified's results is they have lots of good data on other turbos on the same dyno for comparison. And they're not trying to sell their own marked up turbos.
I know my GT2260s made 355/400 whp on 93/e70 on a linked AWD dynojet (STD correction), but I don't have any IS38 results to compare to. I know my timing is conservative compared to say, an EQT IS38 tune.

I would love to see if anyone can provide an example of a GT2260s failing without overspinning. If you're hitting 29psi you're likely over the 185k rpm limit. Logs I've been able to track down from failed ones crossed that threshold.

I'm also really looking forward to seeing some data for boost request and shaft speed in general, hopefully from this IE tune. Based on the compressor map and basic turbo calculations, you can actually overspeed this turbo at 25psi, 6800 engine RPM, and 500ft DA. What's particularly concerning about the IE tune is that in order to hit the 489ft-lbs at 4000RPM they are claiming for their 93 octane file, you pretty much have to be exceeding a pressure ratio of 3.7 (30psi), which is well into overspeed territory. So I hope they're just lying.

Also, what's your fueling situation? The car in the Stratified video was running MPI.