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LIGHTWEIGHT Wheels

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
I don't track my car, have no interest in it. Have zero interest in anything with less than 300TW if I'm being honest. So even MPS4S more than I'm going to buy.

But is there any point at all in (basically) saying "hey, those things that summer you like weren't great, maybe not even good, you all should think about other options" then not throwing out even a single other option?

What is that about 🙄🤣.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Exactly. Especially on track. Near 200tw grip for maybe the warm up lap.
NASA TT and ST classification would disagree with you. Mps4s is under the same bucket as some 200tw tires and even some 100tw. If you're overheating them before lap 5 on most tracks, it's a driver issue, not a tire issue. I find they get hot when they're screeching at every corner after about 12 mins, but they never get greasy like a lot of the 200tw tires, which are really geared towards autocross. Even the mighty re71r and newer rs turn into grease balls after 3 hot laps. No 200tw I've driven on has been able to stay consistent through a session like a Michelin slick, Hoosier R7, or other proper race tire, but the Mps4s at least falls off naturally once it's overheated.
 

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scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
NASA TT and ST classification would disagree with you. Mps4s is under the same bucket as some 200tw tires and even some 100tw. If you're overheating them before lap 5 on most tracks, it's a driver issue, not a tire issue. I find they get hot when they're screeching at every corner after about 12 mins, but they never get greasy like a lot of the 200tw tires, which are really geared towards autocross. Even the mighty re71r and newer rs turn into grease balls after 3 hot laps. No 200tw I've driven on has been able to stay consistent through a session like a Michelin slick, Hoosier R7, or other proper race tire, but the Mps4s at least falls off naturally once it's overheated.
I assumed the reason they're included is they're excellent wet tires, which is why you might be running them in competition.

I don't think PS4S are anywhere near the pace of 200tw in dry conditions, overheated or not.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I assumed the reason they're included is they're excellent wet tires, which is why you might be running them in competition.

I don't think PS4S are anywhere near the pace of 200tw in dry conditions, overheated or not.


Maybe in heavy wet vs damp, but I find a lot of 200tw tires are actually really solid in the damp stuff, especially the yoko a052.

Largely when looking at time trial competitions, the fastest laps of the day happen during the second session lap 2 or 3. Most top level TT drivers (with money to spend) will have three sets of tires, one for wet, one burner dry set to run first heat and heat 3 and 4, and one fresh set to run second heat. Once the fresh set sees 4-6 heat cycles it gets retired to burner set, and a new fresh set is mounted.

The mps4s definitely won't provide the peak grip of an re71rs or yoko a052, but those tires will only do that for 8 or so cycles and then they fall of hard. The mps4s tend to have 20+ heat cycles of keeping their "not as fast as fresh 200tw" pace before falling off a bit more slowly. I don't know the exact details of why they belong in that group, but my guess is to keep the grassroots part of the sport competitive and give those with less money to throw around a competitive chance with a tire they can run without having to run 3 sets.
 

dmanb2b

Ready to race!
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack
I just got pictures of my new summer wheels from ORT Motorsports. Fully forged 18x8.5 and a touch under 18lbs. At $2,300 shipped for a full custom designed wheel (based on f80 m3 design), and dark tinted brushed alloy finish with matching and black center caps, I found this to be a really solid value vs other current options. Yes, made in china like a lot of the others, but left it to Andrew at ORT to work through logistics and ensure I have US based support with a 7 year structural warranty.
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scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
I just got pictures of my new summer wheels from ORT Motorsports. Fully forged 18x8.5 and a touch under 18lbs. At $2,300 shipped for a full custom designed wheel (based on f80 m3 design), and dark tinted brushed alloy finish with matching and black center caps, I found this to be a really solid value vs other current options. Yes, made in china like a lot of the others, but left it to Andrew at ORT to work through logistics and ensure I have US based support with a 7 year structural warranty.
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Those are pretty hot. Always wanted a bigger, lighter pretoria.
 

dmanb2b

Ready to race!
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack
Those are pretty hot. Always wanted a bigger, lighter pretoria.
Exactly, and stronger!...I almost ended up going the pret route, but I am a sucker for fully forged wheels. I am pretty happy...tires should be installed in a few weeks! He did this set for me a few weeks ago. I didn't like the existing 18x9 version for a winter tire setup so had it made in 18x8.5et42 ;)
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dmanb2b

Ready to race!
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack
Wait, those aren’t Apex? I have to suspect they’re made on the same production line (with no changes.)
No sir, they are not. And you are correct, they are almost identical other than not having Apex milled on barrell and a 8.5" width. I own a set of VS5RS for our BMW and wanted a set for the VW. I ultimately did not want the more aggressive fitment Apex offered for a winter wheel. The finish on these is a bit better imo, vs the set on the BMW. The clearcoat is nice and thick and the brushing is a bit more refined. Also, the rear of the wheel looks a bit different. Quality is really good tho, and affordable for a custom-sized, one off wheel.
 

dmanb2b

Ready to race!
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack
Every pocket and window looks identical to mine. I’m not a lawyer, but I’d imagine some might not see the humor in this.
Two things. The width and offset are not the same as yours, and yes BBS might say both wheels look very similar to theirs ;)
 

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bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
23 Golf R - 3 Pedals
Two things. The width and offset are not the same as yours, and yes BBS might say both wheels look very similar to theirs ;)
No, they look 100% identical to VS-5RS, not sorta like those BBS. Apex offers an 18 x 8.5 ET40 VS-5RS, albeit not in 5x112 drilling.

I’d take a bet that if you compared those to what you had, they’ll measure out exactly the same. I’m not sure whose actual rights hold that design, it could be Apex, it could be the Chinese manufacturer. But those are VS-5RS by any other name.
 

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
No, they look 100% identical to VS-5RS, not sorta like those BBS. Apex offers an 18 x 8.5 ET40 VS-5RS, albeit not in 5x112 drilling.

I’d take a bet that if you compared those to what you had, they’ll measure out exactly the same. I’m not sure whose actual rights hold that design, it could be Apex, it could be the Chinese manufacturer. But those are VS-5RS by any other name.
You can get 100% identical wheels to many of these companies that get them from China, chances are good you’ll even get them from the same manufacturing plant also if you go through alibaba… and for less than $2,300 esp in 18”, I got multiple quotes from a couple alibaba contacts and for 21x9s all custom and custom caps (like seen above) and after freight it was only 1500-1600 for the set. (They send you a catalog with like 100 designs to choose from, and they all are wheel designs you see from brands like bc forged, forgeline,hre,bbs,works) even more crazy - they will do all the Branding you want on the wheels for it to identically match say a bbs or work wheel down to the barrel sticker and all! They just ask you to say “these are my logos or brand names” 😂) But you don’t get a stateside company to go to should the wheel fail. 🤷🏼‍♂️

BUT with both of those what you won’t get is a wheel with actual JiL/JLL certifications (sure probably built to those same standards) just no real certs.
 

dmanb2b

Ready to race!
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack
No, they look 100% identical to VS-5RS, not sorta like those BBS. Apex offers an 18 x 8.5 ET40 VS-5RS, albeit not in 5x112 drilling.

I’d take a bet that if you compared those to what you had, they’ll measure out exactly the same. I’m not sure whose actual rights hold that design, it could be Apex, it could be the Chinese manufacturer. But those are VS-5RS by any other name.

Listen, I was pretty clear above, that I didn't like the 18x9 option APEX offered above. As you said. Apex only offers a 18x8.5 ET40 in 5x120 and they aren't in the business of making custom widths or offsets in 5x112 other than what they chose to stock/build. If they did, I would have bought it. For clarity, the ones I asked to be made are 18x8.5 ET42 in 5x112. So call it what you will, but the same does not exist in the APEX rendition of the BBS CI-R wheel I posted above, which to me looks very much like the VS5RS, minus the clear brushed finish. I don't take issue with that and let's not pretend that APEX designs are all original, but renditions of other designs, with certications, testing, and a US-based warranty.

The ORT version I had made may look 100% identical from 10-20ft away, but they are not. So the first obvious difference is the drilling pattern. Second, the finish and the brushing pattern is different, very very close but different. Third, there is no raised "APEX" logo on the outside barrel of the ORT rendition of the wheel. Fourth, the stamping on the back of the wheel barrel is completely different, fifth the ORT does not have knurled beads like the APEX does, and lastly, the design of the back pad is different.

No one here is trying to compete with APEX, but offer a wheel they do not. I begged them for a long time to make the VS5RS for the X3M. Still nothing.
 

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