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KW Suspension

turbojzrr

Go Kart Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'19 Golf R
KW orders there springs from Eibach or
VDF FedernVogtland raw and powder coat them in house, I believe what happened was they had a mislabeled batch.

All variants except the street comfort and clubsports had the same springs for the R.

I love my Clubsports for daily use I steped into a set of Competitions
Are the Clubsports too soft for track use?

Whats interesting about the KW's is that I couldn't get any information on the spring rates. Does anyone know how much stiffer these are over stock?
 

RingTool

New member
Location
California
Car(s)
R
Are the Clubsports too soft for track use?

Whats interesting about the KW's is that I couldn't get any information on the spring rates. Does anyone know how much stiffer these are over stock?
not at all

Clubsport 2way & 3way rates
170mm
570lb front
456lb rear
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Are the Clubsports too soft for track use?

Whats interesting about the KW's is that I couldn't get any information on the spring rates. Does anyone know how much stiffer these are over stock?
To my knowledge, the Clubsports are KW's iteration of a full track suspension.

not at all

Clubsport 2way & 3way rates
170mm
570lb front
456lb rear
Wow... those rates are high. I didn't realize this. Where did you get this information?
 

Al_in_Philly

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia USA
Wow... those rates are high. I didn't realize this.

Bradley, you're usually totally tuned-in to the realities of automotive engineering. Race tracks tend to be dead smooth, compared to public streets. Suspensions designed for maximum traction typically use high spring rates to minimize body movement during acceleration, deceleration, and cornering--suspension travel from any road irregularities on the track tends to be minimal, so the high spring rates usually don't become objectionable. "Clubsport" means clubsport, where lap times, not ride quality, are the begin-all and end-all.
 

turbojzrr

Go Kart Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'19 Golf R
not at all

Clubsport 2way & 3way rates
170mm
570lb front
456lb rear
Thanks a lot for this info! I scrolled through the german spec sheet but could only find the heigh adjustment info but not the spring rate when I went on KW’s website myself.

by the way, if the Clubsport is not too soft then what is the main reason / desire to switch to competition coilovers?
 

RingTool

New member
Location
California
Car(s)
R
Thanks a lot for this info! I scrolled through the german spec sheet but could only find the heigh adjustment info but not the spring rate when I went on KW’s website myself.

by the way, if the Clubsport is not too soft then what is the main reason / desire to switch to competition coilovers?
I initially wanted the Clubsport 3way but no one stocked them so I ended up with the 2way. After talking and setting up a test drive with Chris KW Motorsport Dept mgr about the various configurations the Competition coilovers are the same or not much more in cost and fully customizable.
Basically my new setup is the same as the TCR race car with rear coilover conversion except there 3way and different spring rates/valving.

242634FA-0968-4777-9637-8577340B83B0_1_201_a.jpeg
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Bradley, you're usually totally tuned-in to the realities of automotive engineering. Race tracks tend to be dead smooth, compared to public streets. Suspensions designed for maximum traction typically use high spring rates to minimize body movement during acceleration, deceleration, and cornering--suspension travel from any road irregularities on the track tends to be minimal, so the high spring rates usually don't become objectionable. "Clubsport" means clubsport, where lap times, not ride quality, are the begin-all and end-all.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm just not sure I've seen spring rates this high.

For context, the Bilstein B16 Damptronic kit has rates of somewhere around 390lb front / 310lb rear. Many say the B16 ride like 'race' in the 'comfort' setting. Race mode is essentially useless in any application other than the track. I can only imagine having an even stiffer setup. The KW DDC kit has spring rates of 196lb front and rear. I called and spoke with them about it today. I was going to order this kit, but they quoted me 14 weeks. Ouch.

I'm not new to suspension setups in general, it's just that my main hang up is whether or not to delete the DCC. That and making sure I don't destroy the daily driveability of the car at the same time. I like the KW DDC kit, but many have had issues with the springs, and KW specifically stated that the kit wasn't intended for aggressive driving. I don't plan on tracking the car at all, but I do take it out for canyon runs and spirited drives quite often.

I'm leaning towards deleting the DCC and saving the extra $1500 bucks. Possibly going with a KW V1 setup as I doubt I'd ever make any adjustments to the dampers. I've had several sets of coilovers in the past and usually just end up setting them somewhere in the middle and leaving them that way. I also think they will ride well for a street car.
 

RingTool

New member
Location
California
Car(s)
R
get a set of ST and DCC deletes and call it a day ....... the are the same KW built kit just galvanized steel hosings instead of stainless steel, same valving, shock components ect...same front 1046 & rear 8030 springs as DDC,V1,V2,V3
 

DarkArrow

Drag Racing Champion
Location
OC
Car(s)
'18 R
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm just not sure I've seen spring rates this high.

For context, the Bilstein B16 Damptronic kit has rates of somewhere around 390lb front / 310lb rear. Many say the B16 ride like 'race' in the 'comfort' setting. Race mode is essentially useless in any application other than the track. I can only imagine having an even stiffer setup. The KW DDC kit has spring rates of 196lb front and rear. I called and spoke with them about it today. I was going to order this kit, but they quoted me 14 weeks. Ouch.

I'm not new to suspension setups in general, it's just that my main hang up is whether or not to delete the DCC. That and making sure I don't destroy the daily driveability of the car at the same time. I like the KW DDC kit, but many have had issues with the springs, and KW specifically stated that the kit wasn't intended for aggressive driving. I don't plan on tracking the car at all, but I do take it out for canyon runs and spirited drives quite often.

I'm leaning towards deleting the DCC and saving the extra $1500 bucks. Possibly going with a KW V1 setup as I doubt I'd ever make any adjustments to the dampers. I've had several sets of coilovers in the past and usually just end up setting them somewhere in the middle and leaving them that way. I also think they will ride well for a street car.

I'm in the opposite camp as you. I thought DCC was pure gimmick and had no problem getting rid of it. To me, swapping to 18" wheels made a bigger improvement to ride quality than DCC ever did. I'm on Cliff's old Ohlins with ~450/625 spring setup. Not a cushy ride, but by no means harsh. The other week I was giving a friend a ride and he complemented on how the car rode. When I told him Ohlins, he said that makes sense. He's a former track guy, though.

Have you looked into something like Ground Controls, where you can specify whatever spring rate you want, set the height to what you want, and still use the factory DCC? Before the Ohlins, Cliff ran high spring rate GC coil sleeves with factory DCC and they held up to quite a bit of track abuse.
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
I'm in the opposite camp as you. I thought DCC was pure gimmick and had no problem getting rid of it. To me, swapping to 18" wheels made a bigger improvement to ride quality than DCC ever did. I'm on Cliff's old Ohlins with ~450/625 spring setup. Not a cushy ride, but by no means harsh. The other week I was giving a friend a ride and he complemented on how the car rode. When I told him Ohlins, he said that makes sense. He's a former track guy, though.

Have you looked into something like Ground Controls, where you can specify whatever spring rate you want, set the height to what you want, and still use the factory DCC? Before the Ohlins, Cliff ran high spring rate GC coil sleeves with factory DCC and they held up to quite a bit of track abuse.

There's something to be said about a legit coilover setup. Ohlins obviously makes good stuff. It's funny how such high springs rates can yield such a great ride if set up properly. Based on my research, I'm finding that most people don't install or set up coilover kits properly. They aren't replacing stretch bolts, don't torque things to spec, lower the kits beyond the acceptable range, etc. Then wonder why they have issues and a shit ride. KW's instruction guides are very specific and require some reading not to miss anything. Little things like the spring end orientation at the top mount on the fronts. The end of the spring is supposed to be facing away from the car.

I will admit, I've never used the DCC other than moving the car to 'race' when going out for spirited drives. With lowering springs on the stock DCC struts, 'comfort' just feels like the spring rates don't match the dampers properly. The ride is sloppy and bouncy, and the car doesn't react the way it should. Race feels okay, as in the dampers match the spring much better, but bumps and separation joins in the road feel crashy. Not confidence inspiring.

I'm combing through decisions right now. I got the hookup on a set of KW V1s. $1200 with no tax brand new. Hard to pass it up.
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
get a set of ST and DCC deletes and call it a day ....... the are the same KW built kit just galvanized steel hosings instead of stainless steel, same valving, shock components ect...same front 1046 & rear 8030 springs as DDC,V1,V2,V3

This was actually my first choice. I don't need stainless since I'm in AZ. The car will never see salt or snow. I have an opportunity to get the KW V1s at a discount, so I may be going that route.
 

turbojzrr

Go Kart Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'19 Golf R
I'm in the opposite camp as you. I thought DCC was pure gimmick and had no problem getting rid of it. To me, swapping to 18" wheels made a bigger improvement to ride quality than DCC ever did. I'm on Cliff's old Ohlins with ~450/625 spring setup. Not a cushy ride, but by no means harsh. The other week I was giving a friend a ride and he complemented on how the car rode. When I told him Ohlins, he said that makes sense. He's a former track guy, though.

Have you looked into something like Ground Controls, where you can specify whatever spring rate you want, set the height to what you want, and still use the factory DCC? Before the Ohlins, Cliff ran high spring rate GC coil sleeves with factory DCC and they held up to quite a bit of track abuse.
Am I reading this correctly that the front spring rates are lower than the rears on the Ohlins? Is this a specific mod that Cliff had or is this how the road and track comes?
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
If you don't plan to track the car and you like purple and yellow, just get a set of KW v1 or v2 depending on if you want to deal with adjustment. There's zero reason to spend money on double adjustables, clubsports or triple adjustable competition coilovers for street driving.

If you'd prefer to maintain DCC, get the B16s, they're superb.
 
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