JUST IN: All-new 2015 Mustang.

[KOA789]

i believe for the european market, most future 2.3 mustang owners would very likely for someone who wants a cool car and doesn't know the essence of a muscle car. i remember jeremy saying in one of those episodes "you can keep that engine" when he said the 2.3 offering to europe

The Mustang was never a muscle car. And I'm sure the Euro crowd will want the look and feel of a Mustang with the option of not paying tax on 5 liters of displacement

 

[troyguitar]

The Mustang was never a muscle car.

Yeah, 3600+ lbs and 400+ hp is not a muscle car.

What is it then, the strongest fattest pony on the face of the planet?

It's got PILES of power and is far from compact, it is no little pony and has not been for a long time.

 

[maxtdi]

The Mustang was never a muscle car. And I'm sure the Euro crowd will want the look and feel of a Mustang with the option of not paying tax on 5 liters of displacement

Bingo... also the 2.3 should be pretty clean too...

 

[KOA789]

Yeah, 3600+ lbs and 400+ hp is not a muscle car.

What is it then, the strongest fattest pony on the face of the planet?

It's got PILES of power and is far from compact, it is no little pony and has not been for a long time.

So by your definition, the FRS/BRZ is a pony car?

 

[maxtdi]

So by your definition, the FRS/BRZ is a pony car?

BRZ is a re-incarnation of the Sx240. RWD over-rated and underpowered.

 

[mk6medic]

What is going on in here?

How is a Mustang NOT a muscle car??

How is a BRZ mentioned as being one???

Thread = derailed.

 

[troyguitar]

So by your definition, the FRS/BRZ is a pony car?

If you go by the "an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image" definition then yeah... BRZ, Veloster, Miata, crap like that. Not a huge boat that is over 300 hp with the base model.

 

[mk6medic]

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."

 

[KOA789]

If you go by the "an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image" definition then yeah... BRZ, Veloster, Miata, crap like that. Not a huge boat that is over 300 hp with the base model.

"Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image."

Things change over 50 years, but the bold part is what's important. In an age where 4 door family cars are 4000+ pounds and an m3 is 100 pounds heavier then the Mustang, it's far from a boat and still not a muscle car. Challengers and Chargers fit that definition much better.

 

[mk6medic]

"Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image."

Things change over 50 years, but the bold part is what's important. In an age where 4 door family cars are 4000+ pounds and an m3 is 100 pounds heavier then the Mustang, it's far from a boat and still not a muscle car. Challengers and Chargers fit that definition much better.

Whoa.... my car is not a muscle car. It has 4 doors....the definition clearly states 2 doors.

I think the definition for Charger is : an overweight high powered car with shitty gas mileage and even worse handling all while looking like the owner should be wearing a mullet and flying a confederate flag.

BOOM.

 

[johnny_p]

"Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image."

Things change over 50 years, but the bold part is what's important. In an age where 4 door family cars are 4000+ pounds and an m3 is 100 pounds heavier then the Mustang, it's far from a boat and still not a muscle car. Challengers and Chargers fit that definition much better.

I don't think the word "Mustang" matters as much as the entire definition.
I'd call a BRZ a pony car. Its compact, highly styled, performance oriented, and about the same size as the original Mustang was. Also has about the same power.

I'd call the Mustang a full on muscle car. Actually that's debatable too. It's a damn sports car. Same with the Camaro. To me, muscle car = straight line. Now these cars will destroy many other far more expensive cars on a track too.

 

[PetrolHead]

The Mustang and Camaro are true sports cars, but harking back to their bloated heritages, are much too massive to be completely enjoyable on a track...but it comes down to driving style. I prefer light, nimble, and tossable, whereas someone else may prefer brute force. Both can be fun in their own right, but brute force is a signature of "muscle cars". I'm not sure there are legitimate "pony cars" anymore, and I certainly wouldn't consider the BRZ one. That's just a proper sports coupe.

CAFE regulation will drive the Mustang and Camaro lighter. There's no way around that. I guess then they'll be "pony cars"? I truly can't wait for lightweight, tossable performance coupes from the American OEMs.

 

[XGC75]

The Mustang was never a muscle car. And I'm sure the Euro crowd will want the look and feel of a Mustang with the option of not paying tax on 5 liters of displacement

Agree. The Mustang debuted as a "lifestyle car" and never got the attention from performance guys until Shelby made the 350.

Although the car has had quite the muscle-car tilt for the past few generations - adding weight, adding power, keeping costs in check. But the car's true roots have always been alive in the slow as molasses V6 models (2011+ excluded).

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."

:laugh: Because an etymologist's publishing is what defines a muscle car. Would you believe them if they published what defines the "indie pop" or "progressive house" music genres?

The Mustang and Camaro are true sports cars, but harking back to their bloated heritages, are much too massive to be completely enjoyable on a track...but it comes down to driving style. I prefer light, nimble, and tossable, whereas someone else may prefer brute force. Both can be fun in their own right, but brute force is a signature of "muscle cars". I'm not sure there are legitimate "pony cars" anymore, and I certainly wouldn't consider the BRZ one. That's just a proper sports coupe.

CAFE regulation will drive the Mustang and Camaro lighter. There's no way around that. I guess then they'll be "pony cars"? I truly can't wait for lightweight, tossable performance coupes from the American OEMs.

I wouldn't call the mustang or camero sports cars. I wouldn't call the GTI a sports car, either. A sports car, to me, is a car with a sporting nature, that excels at tracking, autocross or other sports of driving. It needs a great driving position, purposed controls and light weight to be a true sports car. Things that make the car great as a tool for the sport.

Muscle cars, hot hatches, sports sedans and roadsters are lifestyle cars. Otherwise, why wouldn't we designate the Q3S a sports car?

Edit: That said, these non-sports cars could certainly become sports cars with modifications purposed for automotive sporting. Like an LSD, rear seat delete, frame stiffening etc. in the GTI.

 

[manny2206]

Agree. The Mustang debuted as a "lifestyle car" and never got the attention from performance guys until Shelby made the 350.

Although the car has had quite the muscle-car tilt for the past few generations - adding weight, adding power, keeping costs in check. But the car's true roots have always been alive in the slow as molasses V6 models (2011+ excluded).



:laugh: Because an etymologist's publishing is what defines a muscle car. Would you believe them if they published what defines the "indie pop" or "progressive house" music genres?



I wouldn't call the mustang or camero sports cars. I wouldn't call the GTI a sports car, either. A sports car, to me, is a car with a sporting nature, that excels at tracking, autocross or other sports of driving. It needs a great driving position, purposed controls and light weight to be a true sports car. Things that make the car great as a tool for the sport.

Muscle cars, hot hatches, sports sedans and roadsters are lifestyle cars. Otherwise, why wouldn't we designate the Q3S a sports car?

Edit: That said, these non-sports cars could certainly become sports cars with modifications purposed for automotive sporting. Like an LSD, rear seat delete, frame stiffening etc. in the GTI.

I think, that your definition is a bit off in my opinion. If a true sports car needs to be lightweight, great sitting position and good at at the track/auto-X. there would be a a great amount of "supercars" left out. Cars that fail at your requirements like the Murcielago; they are massive, much too wide, way too tale happy and definitely not meant for track duty, auto-X( with the exception of the smaller siblings).

 

[XGC75]

I think, that your definition is a bit off in my opinion. If a true sports car needs to be lightweight, great sitting position and good at at the track/auto-X. there would be a a great amount of "supercars" left out. Cars that fail at your requirements like the Murcielago; they are massive, much too wide, way too tale happy and definitely not meant for track duty, auto-X( with the exception of the smaller siblings).

Well sure supercars aren't all meant for track duty. Supercars are just supercars. They just need to be crazy. No rules, just insanity people will pay a kidney for :laugh: But you bring up a good point - in my definition many supercars wouldn't also be sports cars. That's fine by me. It's mostly the name - if the car is meant for sport, it's a sports car. If it's meant for superlatives, it's a supercar :thumbsup: