JB1 6MT Clutch Update "Poll"

[elamothe15]

We will forever disagree then. The data, (even straight from tuners) shows the clutch assembly is unable to hold the extra power. That is fundamentally why all the tuners have slowly started adding clutch "safe" tunes (which still have slippage, just do a LO APR search).

Driving style has no bearing on whether or not your clutch will slip when its holding capability is exceeded. That is why you always see a huge rash of clutch slip threads when the winter hits. Everyone was borderline on their assembly's holding capacity, car starts making more torque, there goes the clutch.

Even if you are driving "correctly" it does not mean that your clutch isn't going to slip. It's going to have a massively reduced lifespan and will eventually start slipping (if it isn't already, you just aren't noticing it yet).

I do these posts, because every time the weather gets warm, some random owners come on, saying everything is a load of hog wash and you don't need a new clutch, blah blah blah blah. Then post a crying post when the winter hits trying to find a replacement.

Better to be 100% forewarned that if you tune your car IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, you will eventually have to replace your clutch assembly, sooner instead of later.

As I said I wanted to kindly agree and disagree. I agree that with any tune you will dramatically reduce the life of your clutch and if you tune you should be prepared to replace the clutch. My point being with this thread is that which tune you go with can have an effect of how dramatic this may be.

Also I am still sticking to my driving style "theory." Let me try and explain a different way and see if I can convince you The engine can only produce a max amount of HP/torque at certain RPM ranges. This power seen is the same regardless of gear. Obviously due to gear ratios the speed of the actual car will vary. When in a higher gear, you will still produce the same torque at the engine, however when that is relayed to the drivetrain the stress of the torque seen is much less due to the gear ratio. This is why people that mash and go WOT in high gear low RPM have many more issues up front than people who avoid this. And some people (key word some) can get away with slip in 5th gear WOT, but then stop this driving style and pro-long their clutch life....which really may not be much longer in the first place.

So yes, I agree with your key point of tunes going beyond what the stock clutch package can hold and it may not have anything to do with how old it is. Once you go past its limitations there will be an issue immediately. BUT with JB1 for example and the lower output tunes (which are sufficient for some) can pro-long the length of the stock package as max torque is reduced and may be just where the limitations of the stock clutch are. That coupled with my driving style "theory," one may have a delayed onset of clutch issue (which as you mentioned and I agree, are inevitable)

 

[Oldschoolmk7]

Real simple. Combination of both driving style, weak pressure plate, and added power. You can give me any new car with a clutch and (if I desired) I could smoke it in less than a couple of days. If driving style had nothing to do with clutch failures then it would be impossible to burn up that factory clutch. That is not reality. Dismissing driving styles is ignoring the obvious when many people have actually posted on this site doing the clutch "no no's" is fact and guilty as charged. Many examples of "when I put my car in 6th gear it slips at wot, when I speed shifted into second the other day my clutch slipped, etc., etc."

 

[VDuBNIT]

Am I missing something here. I thought only the clutch disk needed to be replaced when tuning. What's this talk about pressure plates???? Obviously SRE and HS Tuning disk solutions all come with a new pressure plate but I thought the disk was the weak point...

 

[toledospeed]

This is an interesting thread, and even though I don't have a manual MK7, I find it interesting to read to see what folks have said and experienced. That said, I have had ~10 manual DD's in my lifetime and a couple were tuned. While I agree with tips folks give about driving style to prolong the inevitable, it really is just that...prolonging the inevitable. The "no lugging" is especially good advice. Lugging isn't good even when you have a strong clutch (and for reasons other than the clutch like LSPI etc.). But, if you now start saying "you can't speed shift into 2nd" etc., what is the fun in that? How would one even know what limit or threshold to follow in order to be "safe"? That is all many folks are saying...to heed the warning seriously. Driving style is not a guarantee that negates this warning. I find the driving style argument (not that I don't agree with the advice) to be teetering on oxymoronic. Folks tune their cars for more power because they want to use said power. But now they have to say, "I tuned my car for more torque/HP, but now I have to baby my car and be careful because I added more torque/HP." LOL.

Am I missing something here. I thought only the clutch disk needed to be replaced when tuning. What's this talk about pressure plates???? Obviously SRE and HS Tuning disk solutions all come with a new pressure plate but I thought the disk was the weak point...

It's the clamping force. Like Knack said above, "It was slipping before the pressure plate upgrade and the friction disk wasn't even worn."

 

[tgodon13]

Long overdue update...

oooooh. Back to MAP 6 - hard acceleration in 1st no slip, quick shit for 2nd under hard acceleration, BIG slip. Let off immediately....Clutch smell....No other slips after that. It never used to do that, used to get a 1st to 2nd chirp of the tires. Guess it is still glazed. Seems to only exhibit a slip at peak torque under hard acceleration. Smooth acceleration aka gradual throttle application there is no slip when going through peak torque range. I'll go back to MAP 0 for a while in hopes of preserving the clutch. Thankfully I drive under 10000 miles a year now. I just need to drive in clutch preservation mode.

...After driving about a month on MAP 0 and double clutching I went back to MAP 6 and added lower amounts of boost, especially 3500 RPM and under. The glazing seemed to have been worked off and the clutch was much better. Since then I have added some more boost in increments and have not experienced and slip and have been able to get tire chirp going 1st to 2nd again. I have not only tuned the JB1 but have also "tuned" my driving and do not do any full throttle accelerations in 4th - 6th gear when below 4000 RPM.

My current MAP 6 settings:

1500 0.0
2000 1.0
2500 1.5
3000 2.4
3500 2.8
4000 3.8
4500 4.8
5000 5.0
5500 5.0
6000 4.8
6500 4.0
7000 3.5

 

[Oldschoolmk7]

...I have not only tuned the JB1 but have also "tuned" my driving and do not do any full throttle accelerations in 4th - 6th gear when below 4000 RPM.
5

Smart person. Even on stock boost the low rpm high gear thing is a killer for stock pressure plate. Best of luck.

 

[WalterKohn]

JB1
24k on the car
23.5k JB1 on the car
Injen Intake (1st gen)

No Slip.

Ran Map1 til Map 6 came out. Depending on time of the year summer winter I go between 4.8 and 5.0.

Not hard launches but I do drive like I stole it 90% of the time.
I work in Philly and live in SJ so with traffic it is hard to stay in a high gears, so I am usually never get out of 4th on my commutes. Don't know if this has helped or not.

My Map 6 settings were pretty aggressive down low for awhile ~10-15k

Once I knew about my second child I went a little more conservative down low knowing Ill need to get rid of the car sooner than later and get an 6MT Alltrack for my 2 boys.

 

[don16]

Any 2013, early 2014 cars having slipping clutches? Or does it seem to be late 2014/2015 onwards? Be good to know

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Oldschoolmk7]

It appears to be both car and driver dependent. Who would have thought...?

 

[tknj99]

As I said I wanted to kindly agree and disagree. I agree that with any tune you will dramatically reduce the life of your clutch and if you tune you should be prepared to replace the clutch. My point being with this thread is that which tune you go with can have an effect of how dramatic this may be.

Also I am still sticking to my driving style "theory." Let me try and explain a different way and see if I can convince you The engine can only produce a max amount of HP/torque at certain RPM ranges. This power seen is the same regardless of gear. Obviously due to gear ratios the speed of the actual car will vary. When in a higher gear, you will still produce the same torque at the engine, however when that is relayed to the drivetrain the stress of the torque seen is much less due to the gear ratio. This is why people that mash and go WOT in high gear low RPM have many more issues up front than people who avoid this. And some people (key word some) can get away with slip in 5th gear WOT, but then stop this driving style and pro-long their clutch life....which really may not be much longer in the first place.

So yes, I agree with your key point of tunes going beyond what the stock clutch package can hold and it may not have anything to do with how old it is. Once you go past its limitations there will be an issue immediately. BUT with JB1 for example and the lower output tunes (which are sufficient for some) can pro-long the length of the stock package as max torque is reduced and may be just where the limitations of the stock clutch are. That coupled with my driving style "theory," one may have a delayed onset of clutch issue (which as you mentioned and I agree, are inevitable)

I think you may very well wind up being the poster boy for clutch longevity with a JB1. I had a question about a tune that you seem to have answered, specifically, once the clutch starts to slip can it be coaxed back to good health. It looks like you may very well have done that. Please keep us posted on your clutch life experience with the new changes you made on Map6. I think this information is invaluable for those looking to tune without looking forward to an early clutch demise.

 

[0bLiViOuS]

Figured I'd chime in here. Tomorrow I'm installing my IS38. Still on stock clutch with ~18.5k on the odo and ~17k or so of that has been on a JB1/4+DP. We'll see how long until the stock clutch slips at IS38 levels but most power is higher rpm and not much more peak torque so I don't think it'll be very different. Let's hope I'm right haha

 

[-Dutch-]

Other than a few idiot moments on my part in 1st I really haven't had any problems.

I don't use 5th, and any throttle in 6th is on the highway to maintain speed, not accelerate.

1st is to get moving, 2nd is for chilling around town and autocross, 3rd and once in a while 4th to put my head back while getting up to cruising speed on the way to work.

I did toast a new civic who was being annoying on some b-roads on the way home but that didn't require anything besides letting the clutch out and avoiding a stall. No 93 was wasted, don't worry.

 

[Oldschoolmk7]

Figured I'd chime in here. Tomorrow I'm installing my IS38. Still on stock clutch with ~18.5k on the odo and ~17k or so of that has been on a JB1/4+DP. We'll see how long until the stock clutch slips at IS38 levels but most power is higher rpm and not much more peak torque so I don't think it'll be very different. Let's hope I'm right haha

Yeah Baby! Been waiting for this... Make sure you slam throttle wide open at 55 mph in 6th. Keep doing that 8-10x to check for slip. Lol.

 

[tknj99]

I'm curious, I see many mentions of not going wide open throttle at low rpm in 5th and 6th gears, but this should also apply to the lower gears as well, right?? Ie..if someone shift early into second and it's at 1500 rpm then 3/4 to wot wouldn't be a good thing for the clutch right? Or is there something specific to 5th and 6th that is tougher on the clutch?

 

[0bLiViOuS]

It's the gear ratios. They apply more load on the clutch as you get higher in gears. The engine produces the same amount of torque but the gears apply resistance to that essentially. Think of it as you running. You can go Xmph. Now carry a 50lb bag and it's a lot harder to go Xmph. That's my very simple explanation lol