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IS20+JB4=no problem, IS20+Stage2=blown engine

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
I'm posting for a friend from Facebook. He was on a JB4 and IS20 with no issues. He even ran as high as 27 psi tapering to 20 with no issues. He wanted to flash because he wanted to remove the speed limiter and be able to do left foot braking. He had the car flashed to stage 2. There wasn't an IS20 tune available. He drove it enough to do one map 4 log and then ran it down the 1/4. At the end of the run it lit up like a Christmas tree. He has cylinder 2 misfire, random misfire on cylinder 1. Cylinder 2 is permanent. He tried switching coil packs with no luck. He pulled the plugs and three are fouled despite having just put them in, and the cylinder 2 plug was cleaner, but funny looking. Cylinder 2 has oil in it as well. He did a compression check and cylinder 2 is only 30 psi. The others are 150. Here ar the plugs and the graphs of the pulls he did with map 4. What I find odd is that he hit 28psi on the flash which is designed for the IS12. I know others on here have stage 1&2 and then did IS20. Would love some feedback
IMG_8528.JPG

IMG_8529.JPG

IMG_8530.JPG
 

russiankid

Drag Race Newbie
Location
PA
My only guess is that the IS20 pushes more volume at 28psi than the IS12, and because the tune was designed for IS12, something went boom.
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
My only guess is that the IS20 pushes more volume at 28psi than the IS12, and because the tune was designed for IS12, something went boom.

Others here have the same stage 2 on just IS12 and it doesn't go that high. Peaks less than 23 and tapers to 17. Something is fishy with the tune. Look at that weird dip and erratic timing. I'm going to look through the IS20 swap page and see who is running stage 2 with the swap
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
We'll help if we can get invited to the Facebook group.

I have only been talking with him on messenger. He hasn't posted it on Facebook yet. I told him he needs to. He doesn't want to call out the tuner yet. It's a grey area since he has been running a JB4 for a while first. It just doesn't make sense that he flashed it, put brand new RS7 plugs in and it blew after one run. The car was flashed for one day
 

Ton

Go Kart Newbie
Location
U.S.
28 is high. Timing looks low too. Any idea what intake air temp was?

Has he popped the head yet? I wounded if he can look down the low compression hole with this:

https://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-Waterproof-
Borescope-Endoscope-Inspection/dp/B00JERRES6

The other cylinders may have fouled after the blown cylinder blew. After it blew or during the blowing process it could have pressurized the hell out of the crankcase and overwhelmed the PCV sending oil throughout the whole intake system.
 
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TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
28 is high. Timing looks low too. Any idea what intake air temp was?

Has he popped the head yet? I wounded if he can look down the low compression hole with this:

https://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-Waterproof-
Borescope-Endoscope-Inspection/dp/B00JERRES6

The other cylinders may have fouled after the blown cylinder blew. After it blew or during the blowing process it could have pressurized the hell out of the crankcase and overwhelmed the PCV sending oil throughout the whole intake system.

His dad has one and he is going to do it later. Would think that the 28 wouldn't have been an issue since he and another guy have both been on 27+ with just the JB4
 

MeltedSolid

Autocross Newbie
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'15 Golf, e36 328i
What engine mods did your friend have? Did he have a downpipe? Which company was the stage 2 tune from? Anything else? It does seem weird that the boost would climb that high and that the timing would be that low. Less than zero timing until mid 5000's RPM and only climbing to a peak of less than 5 deg looks very concerning, and clear evidence that the car wasn't happy.
 

Ton

Go Kart Newbie
Location
U.S.
His dad has one and he is going to do it later. Would think that the 28 wouldn't have been an issue since he and another guy have both been on 27+ with just the JB4

I may be wrong. But I thought that stacking made things safer in many ways though? Like AFR is much more rich on tunes?

How likely is it that 27psi on the is20 1.8 or 2.0 may just be in the edge? Maybe the pistons are getting hammered pretty good and his just failed first? Like WRX piston (except they fail at a lower mod level) or Eccoboost mustang bottom ends?

Did he log IAT?

It will be interesting to see the kind of failure. Hole, ring land etc...it will also be interesting to see the other pistons.
 

Ton

Go Kart Newbie
Location
U.S.
What engine mods did your friend have? Did he have a downpipe? Which company was the stage 2 tune from? Anything else? It does seem weird that the boost would climb that high and that the timing would be that low. Less than zero timing until mid 5000's RPM and only climbing to a peak of less than 5 deg looks very concerning, and clear evidence that the car wasn't happy.

My car will shut itself down quick if it sees anything near those conditions. So if anything the tune was allowing conditions that would normally make the car go limp and save the engine.
 

LG3MK7

Ready to race!
Yeah what melted said. What tune? Was he running jb4 as well? And why push it on a tune not made for Is20? Apr and Unitronic have a tune so how is it not available ?
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
What engine mods did your friend have? Did he have a downpipe? Which company was the stage 2 tune from? Anything else? It does seem weird that the boost would climb that high and that the timing would be that low. Less than zero timing until mid 5000's RPM and only climbing to a peak of less than 5 deg looks very concerning, and clear evidence that the car wasn't happy.

He has a full turbo back exhaust and modified intake with a drop in. Before the flash he was straight JB4 with stock spec plugs. He switched to RS7 plugs when he flashed it at waterfest. He did the one third gear pull and then logged it down the 1/4 mile. When he let off at the end the lights came on and the car started stumbling. He said he drove it for a little bit before the third gear log and it was only peaking at 25 on the gauge. I dont want to get into which tune because I don't want to call them out. Now comes the question if he was really on map 4. What would happen if he ran absolute settings on a flash? would it still stop at what he set it at? would it try to add? Notice that the target plateaus at 30.The plugs pictured above are 1 day old.
 

toledospeed

Go Kart Champion
Location
3rd rock
Sorry to hear this. That was my first question...was it really on map 4? If on map 6, only additive should have been used 0.1 to start, FOL should have been 0, and fuel bias should have been zeroed out across all RPM.
 

toledospeed

Go Kart Champion
Location
3rd rock
Also...how are the oil and coolant levels? Any coolant in the oil, or oil in the coolant? One clean plug can indicate that water was somehow getting into the cylinder and was steam-cleaning the plug. Even just a little bit of a leak could cause problems. Eventually the cylinder could have given way when compressing the added water. Also, IMO, just because it handled 27 PSI OK for a while, doesn't mean failure didn't occur over time due to added stress. IMO, we are pushing the limits at these boost levels. Maybe just too much stress for the 1.8t cylinder head to take over the repeated beatings of getting that hot and stressed over and over. Just speculating of course...will be interesting to see what he finds out. After 21-22 PSI, the IS20 is getting out of it's efficiency range, especially without an intercooler.
 

George Smooth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
South Africa
These look like map 6 with the target pegged at 30psi at some parts. Looks like user error of some sort. Its a tough pill to swallow for the user.

I think we have done a couple stacked Stage 2 Is12 tunes on Is20 with the same software with no issues.
 
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