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Intercooler performance

billbadass

Drag Racing Champion
Location
your moms house
this is super interesting and helpful, thanks, I'm going through a similar thing with removing my Neuspeed FMIC and swapping for an APR (or AMS if someone can convince me AMS > APR)

it's cool weather where i live so i want to prioritize internal intercooler flow, and then I typically just give it throttle getting on the freeway or whatever so periods of WOT with then longer periods of steady state (so stuff gets cool), and it sounded like APR did some work on optimizing all these variables where I don't see other intercooler companies doing that work. I don't love more weight on the nose but I'm not that worried personally with another 5-10lbs or whatever

I generally have heard bar/plate flows more with similar internal intercooler density but I didn't want to stir up a mess by saying that.

I should have a good before/after apples apples dyno test of the Neuspeed vs the APR too on the same dyno/tuner which might be interesting




"I was having issues with keeping my IAT down with an IE intercooler which is a bar and plate unit. I switched to an AMS unit which is tube and fin, and it works much better. I think this is because of how the air flow is limited with the intercooler being sandwiched. I just went through this part switcheroo and that is what I've learned through a couple different individuals who work in the intercooler field. I spoke with Ed at EQT, AMS and TyrolSport when trying to figure out the intercooler situation. Also, I have been talking to CSF about their race oil coolers and I will be switching from a tube fin setrab cooler to a bar and plate csf oil cooler which again, they both follow the same rules/laws of the intercoolers except with oil rather than air.

But either way, it seems tube and fin work better for stock location intercooler. Ed said AMS and APR are the best. TyrolSport said APR and Wagner are the best. Both said they no longer install IE intercoolers and do not recommend them for hybrid turbos. It's interesting that the APR intercooler is a bar and plate and highly recommended. Somehow APR got it right with the air flow inside vs air flow outside for that cooler. "
 

Diggs24

Autocross Champion
Location
de plains! de plains!
Car(s)
2015 GTI
To be fair, Navi also was running an oil cooler in front of his AC condenser that was both restricting flow to his IC and also serving as a heat sink (that heat it shed would go straight back to the IC). Will be interesting to see the AMS IAT data once it has an oil cooler shedding heat into it and block flow to it. I suspect it will still be superior. Some more AMS data on BT setups would be nice.....Not a ton of people run it, but to be fair it never seems to go on sale. I paid close to $700 for my IE from Modded Euros.
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
To be fair, Navi also was running an oil cooler in front of his AC condenser that was both restricting flow to his IC and also serving as a heat sink (that heat it shed would go straight back to the IC). Will be interesting to see the AMS IAT data once it has an oil cooler shedding heat into it and block flow to it. I suspect it will still be superior. Some more AMS data on BT setups would be nice.....Not a ton of people run it, but to be fair it never seems to go on sale. I paid close to $700 for my IE from Modded Euros.

I think the oil cooler was the main problem. The log readings pointed to a problem when not in boost. But when dealing with high flat line boost like you guys are running with hybrids, the IE FDS system can't be helping. The AMS being lighter and probably cooling just a well would probably make it a superior choice over the IE unit given price.
 

billbadass

Drag Racing Champion
Location
your moms house
I will say my Unitronic went from 75f to 90f from the start to the end of my 1/4mile log with the IHX475. It might not be enough for those with hybrid turbos and track their cars. Ed had mentioned the IE cooler doing the same with hybrids. He recommends AMS or APR for bigger turbos.

good color on the Unitronic also, I was considering that one previously since $200 cheaper than APR but heard a few instances of other people having the same issues with it not controlling IATs well with even smaller hybrids
 

billbadass

Drag Racing Champion
Location
your moms house
I'm sure all of this matters with what turbo go with too, I believe Ed shared some data showing EQT is pretty efficient at reasonable boost levels so doesn't create crazy heat, where as an Is20 being spun to the edge of it's life probably pumping in crazy heat into the intercooler
 

billbadass

Drag Racing Champion
Location
your moms house
Uni IC on a small hybrid. It's perfectly fine.



it has slightly smaller mass/size than APR and I like wasting money on my car so that's why I went with APR just because it's slightly larger than Unitronic intercooler. but certainly seems to work ok in that car t least.

cool to see that with only HPFP/LPFP and E48 fuel (ie: doesn't have any MPI), that his fuel system was enough to put up a 128mph trap speed also and sustain a full quarter mile pull like that. Gives me some confidence that HPFP/LPFP upgradeonly will be more than enough for my much more mild is38x setup

128mph is freakin moving on a fairly mild setup street car fwd hatchback with 4 doors on mostly stock stuff
 
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Navi

Autocross Champion
Location
BK/NYC/Hamptons
I think the oil cooler was the main problem. The log readings pointed to a problem when not in boost. But when dealing with high flat line boost like you guys are running with hybrids, the IE FDS system can't be helping. The AMS being lighter and probably cooling just a well would probably make it a superior choice over the IE unit given price.

I could put the oil cooler in front of the AMS for testing purposes. Might as well since the CSF cooler is on back order till May. Car should be back on the road tomorrow and then I'll start experimenting. I don't remember my IAT being so bad when I was is38 though so I think it might have to do with hybrid turbos and bigger turbine wheels. Also, the people I have spoken to about the IE cooler said they were seeing issues with cars that didn't have oil coolers. I'm sure it contributed but I don't think it was the only problem.
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
I could put the oil cooler in front of the AMS for testing purposes. Might as well since the CSF cooler is on back order till May. Car should be back on the road tomorrow and then I'll start experimenting. I don't remember my IAT being so bad when I was is38 though so I think it might have to do with hybrid turbos and bigger turbine wheels. Also, the people I have spoken to about the IE cooler said they were seeing issues with cars that didn't have oil coolers. I'm sure it contributed but I don't think it was the only problem.

Interesting... We would all appreciate the testing data. If the IE cooler was causing the high IATs off boost like we were seeing, that thing is a piece of junk. I feel comfortable saying that then. :)
 
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