Intercooler performance

[Navi]

Here's a good source that I found for the differences.


http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/

I know the difference. I'm curious why one preferences bar and plate for mqb application though.

 

[oddspyke]

I know the difference. I'm curious why one preferences bar and plate for mqb application though.

Durability / piece of mind is probably the most valid reason. Performance wise, they'll both do fine, but if you're pushing 29psi or running a front mount, the bar and plate is a lot less likely to leak or get damaged. For a stage 1 / 2 car with a factory location upgrade, I think it's more just personal preference (I do love a good aluminum weld).

 

[billbadass]

to be honest I would bet that both APR and AMS perform about identically in practice, and i have gone down this rabbit hole of comparing the two many kinds of intercoolers many times for past cars and my takeaway is that both can perform very well. I think Ed at EQT has the record for stock motor/transmission golf R and he runs AMS intercooler. but far as I can tell basically every high end motorsport uses bar and plate, and bar/plate will be a little heavier so will have more mass and theoretically will cool a little better if everything else was identical,

I do get the impression that APR did R&D with various fin configurations and end tanks designs (or that's what they say) and basically I prefer bar and plate because serious motorsports use it but I don't have that strong of a view on it either way. APR is larger than Unitronic and I have heard some people I respect say the IE intercooler doesn't work as well as APR or AMS, and the front mounts all seem to have more pressure drop and it's not hot where I live so Prioritize flow over cooling, and I'd rather pay way too much money for tiny additional gains because I like wasting money on my car, so that knocks the ebay/wagner oem location ones out, so going down the list basically narrows it down to APR or AMS

 

[kornsined]

I will say my Unitronic went from 75f to 90f from the start to the end of my 1/4mile log with the IHX475. It might not be enough for those with hybrid turbos and track their cars. Ed had mentioned the IE cooler doing the same with hybrids. He recommends AMS or APR for bigger turbos.

 

[mk7_bk]

guess ill have to sell my fmic when i get a bigger turbo

 

[Navi]

Durability / piece of mind is probably the most valid reason. Performance wise, they'll both do fine, but if you're pushing 29psi or running a front mount, the bar and plate is a lot less likely to leak or get damaged. For a stage 1 / 2 car with a factory location upgrade, I think it's more just personal preference (I do love a good aluminum weld).

It's not that simple. You are right about durability for bar and plate. But there are some other things to consider:

Bar and plate flows more air through the INSIDE of the intercooler, meaning from inlet to outlet, while tube and fin flows. Tube and fin flows slightly less air through the inside of the intercooler but it does allow more air to pass from front of the cooler to the rear of the cooler, meaning the outside air that is passed through the exterior of the intercooler. So then you have to figure out what the car/tune is asking for. Does it need air to flow faster through the inside of the intercooler or does it need air to flow faster across the exterior of the intercooler for better cooling. Then you start playing a give/take game between those two variables. I suspect this is where the real R&D goes into designing the intercoolers on the market: figuring out the amount of airflow within the turbo system vs how fast and efficiently it is cooled. The air is only inside the intercooler for a certain amount of time so is it better to flow slower inside there with better air flow across the exterior to cool it quicker? All of this depends on the turbo and piping as well. Some setups will move more air faster than others. Next, it is important to consider the platform you are using the intercooler for. As you said, bar and plate is stronger with better durability and they are great for front mount, such as right behind the air dam. Tube and fin is better when there is some sort of protection in front of it. For the MQB stock replacement intercooler, the intercooler is sandwiched between the ac condenser and the radiator, so it is very well protected. I was having issues with keeping my IAT down with an IE intercooler which is a bar and plate unit. I switched to an AMS unit which is tube and fin, and it works much better. I think this is because of how the air flow is limited with the intercooler being sandwiched. I just went through this part switcheroo and that is what I've learned through a couple different individuals who work in the intercooler field. I spoke with Ed at EQT, AMS and TyrolSport when trying to figure out the intercooler situation. Also, I have been talking to CSF about their race oil coolers and I will be switching from a tube fin setrab cooler to a bar and plate csf oil cooler which again, they both follow the same rules/laws of the intercoolers except with oil rather than air.

But either way, it seems tube and fin work better for stock location intercooler. Ed said AMS and APR are the best. TyrolSport said APR and Wagner are the best. Both said they no longer install IE intercoolers and do not recommend them for hybrid turbos. It's interesting that the APR intercooler is a bar and plate and highly recommended. Somehow APR got it right with the air flow inside vs air flow outside for that cooler. But I do have to say, the bar and plate coolers are significantly heavier than the tube and fin. I didn't weigh them because I was in a rush but the IE was at least 10lbs heavier, possibly more.

 

[burtomr]

...But I do have to say, the bar and plate coolers are significantly heavier than the tube and fin. I didn't weigh them because I was in a rush but the IE was at least 10lbs heavier, possibly more.

Usually more. Wagner T&F weighs 18.5 lbs,, I think the IE weighs 32 29

 

[Diggs24]

29

 

[Gptuners]

I was shocked to see how much the Racingline weighed compared to stock- it was mid 20s as well.

 

[PowerDemon]

Usually more. Wagner T&F weighs 18.5 lbs,, I think the IE weighs 32 29

I thought the Wagner was one of the heaviest lol

 

[Diggs24]

ie is a fatty fat fat

 

[jimlloyd40]

I know the difference. I'm curious why one preferences bar and plate for mqb application though.

I guess for the same reason they would on any car. They think that the bar and plate is better. Could be I just don't see that it matters that much.

 

[Diggs24]

IE was the only ones giving real world data (flow, pressure loss, dyno) years ago when everyone else was just like "here's an IC, please buy it. Yeah it's probably good." Uni was having fitment issues. APR was like $900. Wagner too. AMS was puncturing AC condensers, ebay ICs were unknown and Jake's IC was just a twinkle in his eye. My IE seems to be just fine temp wise. Fits fine too. Seems a touch on the restrictive side based on my logs and others. Turbo don't care.

 

[Navi]

My IE did fit better than the AMS... so there's that. The good thing is that they are all mostly around $900. Well not good that they are expensive but good that you're not really price driven if deciding between Wagner, IE, AMS or APR. I did read that IE is coming out with a better intercooler. They call it their race version. I call it their VWR V2 IE Intercooler lol. Seems they have stopped selling the current one.

 

[Andrewbens]

Has anyone tried this one on eBay?
Brand maxpeedingrods

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353056056042