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Intercooler aftermarket upgrade... will it add more lag?

james cole

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Around
Hello Guys,

Looking at updating my IC, but was thinking since all aftermarket ICs have a "bigger" core wont that cause increased turbo lag? Maybe a little bit?

Whats the real world experience with this IC upgrades? will the drivability suffer?

Thanks!
JC
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
The aftermarket intercoolers are bar and plate, and designed for flow as well as volume. Most have less pressure drop vs stock, which means they flow much better then the stock intercooler does, which would make up for any increase in volume.

IE has an enormous amount of data comparing the Stock R intercooler to theirs. Check it out if you want more information.

http://www.performancebyie.com/mk7fds

Scroll down for all the charts and data.
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
I don't have first hand experience to tell you one way or another. The data says there won't be any noticeable increase in lag.)actually a slight decrease) I know R owners are running this intercooler and the APR (which is sized the same). They will hopefully chime in with actual owner feedback.
 

Aussie R

Ready to race!
Location
Australia
I'm looking forward to seeing what is said here. I have read coflicting reviews on Wagner (biggest IC) one person saying noticably more lag and one saying the opposite.

Most have said no differnce in lag adding the Uni IC.

In theory the bigger core should cause increased lag but the improved design and flow characteristics in ones like the IE, Uni etc have actually showed less pressure drop than stock so could be less lag (slightly)
 

Coolrunning39

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Denver
I personally did not notice any more lag with my APR IC. The fitment was perfect and quite easy to install with it.

My car consistently pulled harder while having the APR IC. I never tracked my car so I probably didnt need the extra cooling but I do know it was also easier on the turbo.

I did just part my car out and have my APR IC for sale, so hit me up if you want to go with a 3,000 miles used one!
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
The wagner is also a different design then the other intercoolers (tube and fine vs bar and plate). I assume they did this for weight savings, as a bar and plate intercooler at that size would be quite heavy. (main disadvantage of bar and plate is weight)

According to wagners data, they have less pressure drop then stock as well. (at least similar to IE based on the graph).

http://www.wagner-tuning.com/Competition-Intercooler-Kit-VAG-18-20TSI-200001048_p_105.html

I do believe on picking an intercooler for your particular goals. When I emailed IE about using their intercooler on the GTI, they said the IS20 would have no issue with the larger intercooler, so the IS38 shouldn't miss a beat.
 

james cole

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Around
Thanks Greggles...

So the pressure drop is the force the turbo requires to go trough the IC but not the power it loses on filling a larger space (bigger IC)
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
Correct.

For example. Lets say your ecu requests 20 psi. The stock intercooler has a 2-2.5 psi drop roughly (based on limited data). That means for your boost target (it's actually a torque target, but this is just an example) to hit 20, the turbo has to produce 22-22.5 psi)

If the replacement intercooler has a 1 psi drop (vs the 2.5 of stock), now the car only has to produce 21 psi to hit that target. (Turbo has to work less hard).

This also mean it reaches targeted boost faster.

So though there would be some lag due to the increase in intercooler volume..

1) It either isn't large enough to be bigger then our drive by wire lag
2) The pressure drop reduction compensates for it enough that it is largely unnoticed.

Keep in mind when reading reviews and comparisons of intercoolers to compare the data and find out which mods the owners are using.

For example, APR recently went on an optimization of some of the stage 3 cars, remedying the reasons why they weren't reaching power targets. The reasons? aftermarket bov, aftermarket throttle pipes, aftermarket charge pipes.

So if one guy with a wagner is reporting lag, and one isn't, compare their mods. One guy might have a bunch of aftermarket charge pipes leaking boost all over the place. (The OEM piping flows fine, and stock dv holds fine at stage 3 levels (540 bhp))

I particularly like the IE intercooler because of its design, and because it comes with new hoses. If you were really worried about size effecting you, the unitronic is smaller, but I feel that is more sized for an IS20, not the IS38. (APR/IE).
 

machwon

New member
Location
LA
I recently installed the CTS intercooler in my car and noticed no significant change in lag but I did notice a general boost in power over the RPM range. Also, my intake temps are much more consistent and fluctuate much less than with the stock intercooler per my P3 gauge. I have the stock intake, CTS inlet pipe and Suplen boost pipes with the turbo muffler delete as well that were installed prior to the new intercooler going in. Also registered a 4.28sec 0-60 run just yesterday with this set up.
 

Firstboost

Go Kart Champion
Location
East Bay Area
I particularly like the IE intercooler because of its design, and because it comes with new hoses.(APR/IE).

One of the reasons I went with AMS. Can't go wrong with either though. I really like the IE intake and if AMS doesn't put theirs out soon, I may have to jump on it.
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
Will this really make me lose power

Won't lose (unless something comes loose), but APR found it doesn't aid power either. To paraphrase kyle..."At lot of the aftermarket modifications I purchased for this car either didn't do anything at all, or hurt the performance".

Eventually we will all probably figure out, all you really need for the car is tires, tune, intercooler, DP, and a closed box intake. But it is more fun to try and replace everything we can!
 
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