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Installed a CSF Radiator

Al_in_Philly

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia USA
Unless an intercooler is placed behind the radiator (which I've never seen), or in a totally different location (which is almost as rare in front-engined cars), the heat being extracted from the intake charge flows out of the intercooler and into the air passing through the radiator. When you increase the efficiency of the intercooler, you are also increasing the air temperature reaching the radiator, decreasing the radiator's capacity to reduce the temperature of the coolant being sent back into the engine.
 
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GTI Jake

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
The implication here being that all tuned R's on the track have cooling issues? I've always been a fan of over-building in preparation for issues rather than run into them and fix after. Having a dual-pass thicker radiator in addition to an upgraded intercooler seems like a no-brainer to help reduce the chances of cooling issues for track?

I’m saying all tuned MQB cars, not just the R. This includes those running both CSF coolers you’re using/planning to use.

Point is, if you don’t track you’re solving an issue that doesn’t exist. If you do track, it’ll still be inadequate unless you keep the car at stock HP or very close to it.

Just being realistic, you can’t take a companies marketing fluff as pure gold, real world reviews from guys who track modded cars show a products true colors and these have in all my research proven to be a waste of time and effort.


I really didn't have any issues with my CSF Rad install and CTS Direct Fit Intercooler. I haven't had any limp conditions on track with the Rad and CSF DSG cooler.

And yeah the Pink VW fluid is super sticky.

What are limp conditions?

My car wrapped the coolant temp all the way around to 280*F and the cars only response was a warning on the MFD.

I took a cool down lap and learned to do so periodically to prevent it from running away like that. The change from mid span on the gauge to fully pegged and idiot warning came within about 20-30 seconds since I’d last glanced at the dash.
 

scrapin240

Drag Racing Champion
Location
IzzaGolf
Car(s)
Golf
I’m saying all tuned MQB cars, not just the R. This includes those running both CSF coolers you’re using/planning to use.

Point is, if you don’t track you’re solving an issue that doesn’t exist. If you do track, it’ll still be inadequate unless you keep the car at stock HP or very close to it.

Just being realistic, you can’t take a companies marketing fluff as pure gold, real world reviews from guys who track modded cars show a products true colors and these have in all my research proven to be a waste of time and effort.




What are limp conditions?

My car wrapped the coolant temp all the way around to 280*F and the cars only response was a warning on the MFD.

I took a cool down lap and learned to do so periodically to prevent it from running away like that. The change from mid span on the gauge to fully pegged and idiot warning came within about 20-30 seconds since I’d last glanced at the dash.
I've read when the oil temp or DSG temps reach high temps, the car starts to go slower, a type of limp mode, until it cools back down. I have not had my car reach those temps with the CSF Rad/CSF DSG Cooler. I'm stage 2
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
I've read when the oil temp or DSG temps reach high temps, the car starts to go slower, a type of limp mode, until it cools back down. I have not had my car reach those temps with the CSF Rad/CSF DSG Cooler. I'm stage 2
The ECU cuts power in those conditions.
 

DarkArrow

Drag Racing Champion
Location
OC
Car(s)
'18 R
I’m saying all tuned MQB cars, not just the R. This includes those running both CSF coolers you’re using/planning to use.

Point is, if you don’t track you’re solving an issue that doesn’t exist. If you do track, it’ll still be inadequate unless you keep the car at stock HP or very close to it.

Just being realistic, you can’t take a companies marketing fluff as pure gold, real world reviews from guys who track modded cars show a products true colors and these have in all my research proven to be a waste of time and effort.




What are limp conditions?

My car wrapped the coolant temp all the way around to 280*F and the cars only response was a warning on the MFD.

I took a cool down lap and learned to do so periodically to prevent it from running away like that. The change from mid span on the gauge to fully pegged and idiot warning came within about 20-30 seconds since I’d last glanced at the dash.

Hey Jake, what are you using to monitor your coolant temps? I know many people have mentioned on this forum how the coolant needle/infotainment car data is not an accurate method to monitor temps. I haven't run into any coolant temp issues on my stage 2 R, but have mainly avoided really hot days when going to the track.
 

TheMuffinMan

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Virginia
I’m saying all tuned MQB cars, not just the R. This includes those running both CSF coolers you’re using/planning to use.

Point is, if you don’t track you’re solving an issue that doesn’t exist. If you do track, it’ll still be inadequate unless you keep the car at stock HP or very close to it.

Just being realistic, you can’t take a companies marketing fluff as pure gold, real world reviews from guys who track modded cars show a products true colors and these have in all my research proven to be a waste of time and effort.

Interesting, this is my first dive into MQB (German in general honestly) so still learning the ropes on tidbits. My S2000 pretty much required upgraded cooling once boosted but has been decently solid since then - the upgrades were very noticeable and beneficial.

Is there a particular reason on the MQB platform upgrading the system doesn't help? I'm at Stage 2 power levels and looking to get it on the track for the HPDE/AutoX - also one of the reasons I did the full Macan brake upgrade with the RPVs and such.
 

GTI Jake

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Interesting, this is my first dive into MQB (German in general honestly) so still learning the ropes on tidbits. My S2000 pretty much required upgraded cooling once boosted but has been decently solid since then - the upgrades were very noticeable and beneficial.

Is there a particular reason on the MQB platform upgrading the system doesn't help? I'm at Stage 2 power levels and looking to get it on the track for the HPDE/AutoX - also one of the reasons I did the full Macan brake upgrade with the RPVs and such.

Two major reasons, unfortunately.

The cooling stack doesn’t leave much room for the radiator. CSF claims a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT which listed in MM sounds good on paper, but in reality 42mm (IIRC) only translates to 1.6” in bald eagles measurements which is still laughably thin.

Not only are our turbos (all MQB cars) liquid cooled, but the manifold is also integral to the cylinder head. While that’s good for spool it is very taxing in a track day environment. Figure in a 20 minute session you’re WOT for about 15 minutes straight, and that glowing red turbo is transferring all that heat into coolant shared with the rest of the engine.

I devised a proper solution, almost doubling the capacity of the already much larger CSF radiator, however the shop I choose for manufacturing the part hasn’t made any headway on making my idea reality. It’s just beyond my capabilities since there’s mounting points and hose connections that need to be machined.


To compound the two main issues, the OEM oil cooler is liquid cooled using that same coolant as well…so excessive oil temperature can become an issue.

The least fun, but most effective solution is to detune back to stock power (or close to it) for track days and just enjoy the extra power on the street. But, I’m in it for fun so I’ve just added even more power haha. Not that my car frequently sees track time, but when it does again I’ll need more cool down laps to accommodate the additional power I’ve added (unless the shop in question comes through for me).
 

mmdb

Drag Racing Champion
Location
California
This little thing came in - aux radiator that'll fit on the passenger side of the bumper. Will post up more pix as I install.

IMG_7187.jpg

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IMG_7194.jpg
 

TheMuffinMan

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Virginia
Just got my car back from having this installed and it's a very tight fit.

I did notice that the OEM shroud for the fans seems to sit away from the radiator itself - is there any trimming that should be required?
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Near as I can tell the CSF radiator is a big waste. There is zero real correlation to it alone lowering temps.

Adding a properly ducted oil cooler does more to help with coolant temps than adding the radiator alone does.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/oil-cooler-duct-conclusionresults

I have a cooling report of many logs (which I’m in the middle of revamping to include more info and be faster for me to process new ones)… on the last page there’s a report of comparing all IS38+tuned+AM IC cars, split by with vs without the CSF rad.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17OmZvC_tlsmpFnLV45jxSy9Ocyry3ZaX/view?usp=drivesdk

The only one that stands out is @Redslaya ’s car that we ducted an oil cooler on which fixed everything.
 

TheMuffinMan

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Virginia
Noted, my radiator broke however and needed replacement. Actually spoke about Alex's car with the Euro Shop guys about it not doing to terribly much on its own.
 

geokilla

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Car(s)
2018 VW GTI DSG
I was told removing the grille in between the headlights and opening up that blocked air intake thingy helps significantly in reducing overall temperatures. No idea how legit it is...
 
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