jmason
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Frederick, MD
TLDR: Worked fine.
Introduction
This is an initial review of the Neuspeed 6-piston 340mm BBK (caliper and Neuspeed slotted two-piece rotors) used in a HPDE environment. It is necessarily subjective in that I have few measurable quantities to support evaluation. Many of the observations are relative to my experience with a Brembo 330mm 4-piston BBK fitted with one-piece slotted rotors.
Brake performance depends on many factors that are listed below:
My HPDE event was a two-day affair of 7 sessions totaling about 105 minutes. I cut most sessions short to preserve the tires and limit the time that the engine oil temp was over 270 deg. It was supposed to be a three-day event, but oil leakage (from the joint between the intercooler outlet and hose, so obviously oil in the intake and a high-pressure leak resulting in loss of boost pressure [see comment above about top speed]) and a catch can half full of oil discovered after the seventh run meant that I aborted before the end of the second day.
BBK Fitment
This BBK fits snuggly inside my Neuspeed RSE16 8.5x17 wheels, no spacers required. There is 1.5mm clearance at the narrowest point between the caliper and wheel barrel. There is no evidence of contact between the caliper and wheel. There is some evidence of tire rubber temporarily caught between the caliper and wheel. There was no damage to the caliper or wheel due to the stuck tire rubber.
The tight clearance is of some concern. To minimize risk of something getting stuck, I use 18” wheels for non-track duty.
Brake Pedal Travel/Feel
I don’t have a measurement of the difference in travel, but the travel felt slightly longer, although not excessive in my opinion. Heel and toe braking motion was not effected. Travel did not increase during the event. Either I got used to it or the travel may have slightly decreased over time.
Upon returning home, I replaced the track pads and two-piece rotor with pads supplied with the BBK (iSweep brand) and one-piece rotors. In this configuration, it was immediately apparent that the brake pedal travel is as what it was with the Brembo BBK.
I will need more experience with the new BBK to get a better handle on the perceived difference in pedal travel observed with the different configurations.
On track, I found that the initial bite and torque to be greater than what I was used to. It required a light touch at initial brake application and thereafter, as if there is too much brake assist. With practice, I was able to develop a better feel for the set-up. Still, it was fairly easy to overdo my initial braking and overwhelm the tires. (As an aside, one reason for the BBK upgrade was to support future use of stickier tires.) When the Hawk pads are worn out, I may try a pad compound that has less initial bite and a lower coefficient of friction (Pagid RSL19 or RSL29?). Alternatively, perhaps there is an ABS adaptation that may be useful in addressing this situation.
With the street setup, the initial bite and torque seems to be consistent with the Brembo fitted with Hawk street pads.
Other Observations
There were no overheating issues such as brake fade, fluid boiling, or excessive pad wear.
The pads that fit the Neuspeed caliper are the Brembo “M” pad design (190mm long, 73mm high). This is a 17mm thick pad (5mm backing plate, 12mm pad material). New at the beginning of the event, all four pad’s thickness was 16mm at the conclusion of the event, a 1mm reduction. This is significantly less than what I have observed with the (smaller) pads installed in the Brembo BBK.
I’m not sure I can definitively comment on brake bias. I did note that the rear pads did wear during the event, so something was happening back there. I didn’t feel any instability under braking.
There was no discernible decrease in braking distance, and none was expected. Track conditions and tires are the limiting factor here.
Conclusion
There’s no getting around the fact that a 6-piston BBK is an expensive proposition. The upgrade addresses several shortcomings of my Brembo kit and it appears to provide significant performance headroom. Given my experience to date, in my opinion it is a solid and worthwhile (if pricey) upgrade.
Introduction
This is an initial review of the Neuspeed 6-piston 340mm BBK (caliper and Neuspeed slotted two-piece rotors) used in a HPDE environment. It is necessarily subjective in that I have few measurable quantities to support evaluation. Many of the observations are relative to my experience with a Brembo 330mm 4-piston BBK fitted with one-piece slotted rotors.
Brake performance depends on many factors that are listed below:
- Car: 2015 non-PP GTI. No engine mods, some suspension mods. ESC completely off. No change to ABS.
- Brake pads: Hawk Performance DTC-60. This is the same pad compound I have used with the Brembo BBK.
- Brake Fluid: ATE 200. This is the same fluid I have used for all my HPDE events.
- Tires: Hankook Ventus R-S4 235/40/17, with five track days prior use and a one-year storage interval since previous use. Likely not as sticky as when new.
- ABS Adaptations: A number of adaptations were made as listed below:
- Straight Ahead Brake Stabilization – Not Activated
- Hydraulic Brake Assist – Not Activated
- Brake Booster – 1
- Hydraulic Brake Booster - 1
- Track: Summit Point Motorsports Park “Main” circuit. This circuit is 10 turn, two-mile course with a 2980 ft long main straight, at the end of which I was achieving about 115 mph (down from a usual 120). There are two heavy braking zones, one at the end of the main straight leading into a fairly tight 180-deg right-hand turn (“The Loop”), and the other is at the end of a downhill straight leading into a tight 90 deg left-hand turn (“Eva Gardner Turn”).
- Ambient temperature: 90 deg F
My HPDE event was a two-day affair of 7 sessions totaling about 105 minutes. I cut most sessions short to preserve the tires and limit the time that the engine oil temp was over 270 deg. It was supposed to be a three-day event, but oil leakage (from the joint between the intercooler outlet and hose, so obviously oil in the intake and a high-pressure leak resulting in loss of boost pressure [see comment above about top speed]) and a catch can half full of oil discovered after the seventh run meant that I aborted before the end of the second day.
BBK Fitment
This BBK fits snuggly inside my Neuspeed RSE16 8.5x17 wheels, no spacers required. There is 1.5mm clearance at the narrowest point between the caliper and wheel barrel. There is no evidence of contact between the caliper and wheel. There is some evidence of tire rubber temporarily caught between the caliper and wheel. There was no damage to the caliper or wheel due to the stuck tire rubber.
The tight clearance is of some concern. To minimize risk of something getting stuck, I use 18” wheels for non-track duty.
Brake Pedal Travel/Feel
I don’t have a measurement of the difference in travel, but the travel felt slightly longer, although not excessive in my opinion. Heel and toe braking motion was not effected. Travel did not increase during the event. Either I got used to it or the travel may have slightly decreased over time.
Upon returning home, I replaced the track pads and two-piece rotor with pads supplied with the BBK (iSweep brand) and one-piece rotors. In this configuration, it was immediately apparent that the brake pedal travel is as what it was with the Brembo BBK.
I will need more experience with the new BBK to get a better handle on the perceived difference in pedal travel observed with the different configurations.
On track, I found that the initial bite and torque to be greater than what I was used to. It required a light touch at initial brake application and thereafter, as if there is too much brake assist. With practice, I was able to develop a better feel for the set-up. Still, it was fairly easy to overdo my initial braking and overwhelm the tires. (As an aside, one reason for the BBK upgrade was to support future use of stickier tires.) When the Hawk pads are worn out, I may try a pad compound that has less initial bite and a lower coefficient of friction (Pagid RSL19 or RSL29?). Alternatively, perhaps there is an ABS adaptation that may be useful in addressing this situation.
With the street setup, the initial bite and torque seems to be consistent with the Brembo fitted with Hawk street pads.
Other Observations
There were no overheating issues such as brake fade, fluid boiling, or excessive pad wear.
The pads that fit the Neuspeed caliper are the Brembo “M” pad design (190mm long, 73mm high). This is a 17mm thick pad (5mm backing plate, 12mm pad material). New at the beginning of the event, all four pad’s thickness was 16mm at the conclusion of the event, a 1mm reduction. This is significantly less than what I have observed with the (smaller) pads installed in the Brembo BBK.
I’m not sure I can definitively comment on brake bias. I did note that the rear pads did wear during the event, so something was happening back there. I didn’t feel any instability under braking.
There was no discernible decrease in braking distance, and none was expected. Track conditions and tires are the limiting factor here.
Conclusion
There’s no getting around the fact that a 6-piston BBK is an expensive proposition. The upgrade addresses several shortcomings of my Brembo kit and it appears to provide significant performance headroom. Given my experience to date, in my opinion it is a solid and worthwhile (if pricey) upgrade.
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