I am considering tracking my car in the near future...looking for suggestions/tweaks

[up4speed]

I am replacing my GTI with another daily driver, so I may keep the GTI as an extra car for the family, city car, train station, etc. But also want to do several track days a year with it. So in other words, I want to track it, but still be usable for daily type duties.
I'm not looking to beat any speed records (except my own), just looking to have some fun and zip around the track. I have a good amount of track experience at some tracks in the area, but no experience tweaking/modding a street drivable car for the track.
All that said, I'm looking for suggestions from those who have experience doing this. Obviously, a good set of tires will be my first mod, and a good set of brakes after I fry the stock ones (I don't even have the power pack).
For tires, I'm thinking the michelin Pilot Sport 4S (I still want it streetable), and for brakes, I have no clue and looking for suggestions.
Also, I have an OBDEleven, so I'm looking for all the tweaks that I can do for the brakes, transaxle, stability control, etc.
I also would like to hear any opinions on stuff other than tires, brakes, and programming. Not looking for extreme stuff, just stuff that will help me enjoy the experience.

 

[GTI Jake]

My car is non performance package as well. I would NOT recommend attending a track day with the stock brakes, upgrade first.

Tire wise do you have the option of a second set? Ideally a track set of brake pads and tires is best.

The next limiting factor is the open differential. Depending on how tight your local track is and if your car is tuned that may be the third most important mod. Speaking from experience without a proper LSD you need to really watch tire pressure.

 

[morricus]

I have a lot of racing experience, just all on racing tires and not in the GTI. That said, I only have track experience with Federal 595R's on the GTI. I cannot speak to how other tires perform. Aside from the fact they don't exactly give you a ton of feedback at the limit, before they are about to let go, they're an unbelievable bargain. I got them from Amazon for about $100 shipped a piece. I'm quite certain there are quieter options and tires as grippy, but not for the price.

 

[up4speed]

My car is non performance package as well. I would NOT recommend attending a track day with the stock brakes, upgrade first.

Tire wise do you have the option of a second set? Ideally a track set of brake pads and tires is best.

The next limiting factor is the open differential. Depending on how tight your local track is and if your car is tuned that may be the third most important mod. Speaking from experience without a proper LSD you need to really watch tire pressure.

I do have the option to add a second set of wheels. I have a lift at my house, so it's not a huge deal, I just prefer to have a tire that I can leave on. If I went that route, what tire do you recommend for track only use?
Also as far as brakes, what setup do you recommend?

 

[yakev724]

Hi - which tracks do you plan on going to? I'm also looking to start, hopefully with the couple HPDE days left this season in the northeast at Watkins Glen and then NJMP.

I'm in a similar boat in getting my S3 prepped and based on my research (not experience) I think your best bet for starting out is a set of PP front calipers (shared with golf r and s3), some higher spec fluid (e.g. rbf600) and beefier pads (e.g. ferodo ds2500).

 

[up4speed]

Hi - which tracks do you plan on going to? I'm also looking to start, hopefully with the couple HPDE days left this season in the northeast at Watkins Glen and then NJMP.

I'm in a similar boat in getting my S3 prepped and based on my research (not experience) I think your best bet for starting out is a set of PP front calipers (shared with golf r and s3), some higher spec fluid (e.g. rbf600) and beefier pads (e.g. ferodo ds2500).

Some tracks I plan I going to: Limerock, Watkins Glen, Monticello, NY Safety track

 

[GTI Jake]

I do have the option to add a second set of wheels. I have a lift at my house, so it's not a huge deal, I just prefer to have a tire that I can leave on. If I went that route, what tire do you recommend for track only use?
Also as far as brakes, what setup do you recommend?

With your experience there’s no reason not to have a set of slicks or R comps on a dedicated track set. You’re correct on PS4S being the go to on the street, but if you track often they won’t see much of a life span anyway so you might as well keep them for 30k on the street rather than 5-10k of mixed use.

I have Stoptech ST40 355mm upfront and Mk5 R32 rear. I absolutely love the setup and the confidence it inspires. Tons of pad options and unlimited headroom for any feature mods. There’s cheaper routes, but I consider my setup a budget build without compromise.

Someone mentioned OEM PP/R brakes and I’d skip that for the fronts unless you get them for free/dirt cheap. They’re very heavy, and leave very little headroom. A good cheaper alternative for about the same money are the Mancan brakes which there’s a very active thread on.

If you’re interested I made videos on the front and rear setups on my car.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu8yTGcWyQYExsTq8fhQhmg

There’s guys who’ll preach about keeping oem brakes, but from a safety standpoint there’s literally nothing more important and I’d never steer anyone towards spending money on something that’ll still be sub par all said and done.

 

[Lord_Flexington]

I am replacing my GTI with another daily driver, so I may keep the GTI as an extra car for the family, city car, train station, etc. But also want to do several track days a year with it. So in other words, I want to track it, but still be usable for daily type duties.
I'm not looking to beat any speed records (except my own), just looking to have some fun and zip around the track. I have a good amount of track experience at some tracks in the area, but no experience tweaking/modding a street drivable car for the track.
All that said, I'm looking for suggestions from those who have experience doing this. Obviously, a good set of tires will be my first mod, and a good set of brakes after I fry the stock ones (I don't even have the power pack).
For tires, I'm thinking the michelin Pilot Sport 4S (I still want it streetable), and for brakes, I have no clue and looking for suggestions.
Also, I have an OBDEleven, so I'm looking for all the tweaks that I can do for the brakes, transaxle, stability control, etc.
I also would like to hear any opinions on stuff other than tires, brakes, and programming. Not looking for extreme stuff, just stuff that will help me enjoy the experience.

I can certainly help with that!

Prepare for lots of fun!

So your track situation will be similar to mine when I started.

My first suggestion is on tires.

https://tirestreets.com/products/accelera-651-sport
These are what I use for competition (200tw limit) and Daily Driving. They over perform and do amazing in the rain so no worries about being caught in bad weather. life is also excellent.

They wont have the "plushiness" of the 4s but will perform better on track for sure with great comfort at proper PSI levels.

Feel free to use our team code "Easthood" for a set. They are true to size so if you are using stock wheels. the 235s will be perfect. (i fit them on a 8.5 at one point)

Brakes

Let's keep it simple, OEM NON PP?
Fluid- ATE typ 200. Used it for comp and daily driving the first 2years.Now use Endless RBF-650 to great success but may be overkill for you.

Pads-Ferodo Ds2500 are a great dD/ light trackpad. Used them for 3 years with great results.

Next up would be something from hawk but you would have to choose the compound that suits you. IF you don't mind swapping pads for track days. I would run DTC-60 in the front and Ht-10 in the rear. Fantastic braking performance with some heat and work well.

Please avoid EBC. They are quite shite for track use. Good for street people but not for tracks.

I use
265/35/18 651s on 8.5 width wheel with DTC 70 Fronts HT-10 Rears now. Its amazing. (mine is the PP for reference)

I highly suggest you change brakes first. OEM pads are bleh as is the fluid for a track day. You will boil them. Stock rotors are fine.



one last thing. If you start going truly fast. Start planning now to invest in this from Spulen

https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Spulen-2.0TSI-Billet-Spherical-Catch-Can-Kit-Black-SE-CCTSIV2-B1.html

This will negate any PCV issues or oil blow by that happens at High g corners and under heavy braking.

Hope this was helpful!

If you need help sourcing either let me know. DM or shoot an email via www.easthoodracing.com

 

[up4speed]

I can certainly help with that!

Prepare for lots of fun!

So your track situation will be similar to mine when I started.

My first suggestion is on tires.

https://tirestreets.com/products/accelera-651-sport
These are what I use for competition (200tw limit) and Daily Driving. They over perform and do amazing in the rain so no worries about being caught in bad weather. life is also excellent.

They wont have the "plushiness" of the 4s but will perform better on track for sure with great comfort at proper PSI levels.

Feel free to use our team code "Easthood" for a set. They are true to size so if you are using stock wheels. the 235s will be perfect. (i fit them on a 8.5 at one point)

Brakes

Let's keep it simple, OEM NON PP?
Fluid- ATE typ 200. Used it for comp and daily driving the first 2years.Now use Endless RBF-650 to great success but may be overkill for you.

Pads-Ferodo Ds2500 are a great dD/ light trackpad. Used them for 3 years with great results.

Next up would be something from hawk but you would have to choose the compound that suits you. IF you don't mind swapping pads for track days. I would run DTC-60 in the front and Ht-10 in the rear. Fantastic braking performance with some heat and work well.

Please avoid EBC. They are quite shite for track use. Good for street people but not for tracks.

I use
265/35/18 651s on 8.5 width wheel with DTC 70 Fronts HT-10 Rears now. Its amazing. (mine is the PP for reference)

I highly suggest you change brakes first. OEM pads are bleh as is the fluid for a track day. You will boil them. Stock rotors are fine.



one last thing. If you start going truly fast. Start planning now to invest in this from Spulen

https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Spulen-2.0TSI-Billet-Spherical-Catch-Can-Kit-Black-SE-CCTSIV2-B1.html

This will negate any PCV issues or oil blow by that happens at High g corners and under heavy braking.

Hope this was helpful!

If you need help sourcing either let me know. DM or shoot an email via www.easthoodracing.comView attachment 182247

Thank You so much!!!
That was a lot of great info, and EXACTLY the type of info/knowledge that I'm looking for at this stage of the game.
Once my replacement car comes in, I will have to get to work getting her ready for fun. I'm looking forward to it!

 

[GTIfan99]

Only 2 tires I'd look at right now are the Hankook RS4 in the 200tw range and the Nangking AR-1 in the 100tw range, though I'd stick with 200tw if you aren't planning on running full on track brakes with ducting. Slicks or rcomps are fun, but will overwhelm your brakes.

You need a LSD.

If you're going to track a lot, you'll want to upgrade at least your front brakes. There's a few of us using the Porsche Macan front calipers, but we don't have everything fully sorted yet. We're working on it, but covid has limited track days. They are cheap though but they're a bit of a DIY project at this point. We don't know How they'll hold up long term and we're seeing some brakes bias issues. ST40 would probably make more sense as it's bolt on developed for the car.

You need a bigger rear sway, especially if your staying stock suspension and you'll want to either do camber plates in the front or new LCA's to get more negative camber.

Beyond that, you start to lose the streetability a little bit.

 

[GTI Jake]

Only 2 tires I'd look at right now are the Hankook RS4 in the 200tw range and the Nangking AR-1 in the 100tw range, though I'd stick with 200tw if you aren't planning on running full on track brakes with ducting. Slicks or rcomps are fun, but will overwhelm your brakes.

You need a LSD.

If you're going to track a lot, you'll want to upgrade at least your front brakes. There's a few of us using the Porsche Macan front calipers, but we don't have everything fully sorted yet. We're working on it, but covid has limited track days. They are cheap though but they're a bit of a DIY project at this point. We don't know How they'll hold up long term and we're seeing some brakes bias issues. ST40 would probably make more sense as it's bolt on developed for the car.

You need a bigger rear sway, especially if your staying stock suspension and you'll want to either do camber plates in the front or new LCA's to get more negative camber.

Beyond that, you start to lose the streetability a little bit.

How do the RS4 do in the rain?

 

[GTIfan99]

How do the RS4 do in the rain?

Not as well as RE71R's or SUR4g's, but if you get caught out with them, it isn't terrible, at least on my old Miata. RE71R's get to greasy in the FL heat. if you keep a set of PS4S or something along those lines as your streets, you can use them in the rain. SUR4g's do really well in the rain, but take awhile to heat up and get greasy. Not sure how they managed that.

 

[SouthFL_Mk7.5]

Bare Minimum;
Track temp sustainable Brake pads/ Fluid
200tw - 300tw tire
Performance Alignment

Nice First/ Mild Upgrades;
Rear Sway Bar
Increase front Camber
Deadset kit

 

[GTIfan99]

And this is all relative. I had the chance to do a track day at Daytona right after I bought the 2019. With just a RSB, everything else completely stock, including the pads, fluid, and tires. I ran high 2:20's and had zero pad fade. Obviously, I wasn't pushing the car, but I wasn't put-puting around either, I was running the kind of pace I would on a mountain road.

If you aren't trying to set track record or wanting to push it, pads, decent tires, and fluid will be fine.

Once you start pushing though, you'll quickly find the limits of a mild setup like that though.

Then it's time for real brakes, camber, alignment, sticky tires, cooling mods, etc...

You seem experienced, so if you start getting some softness in the brake pedal, the tires start to get greasy, or temps get out of hand, you can just back off some. It's not rocket science.

 

[CDM MK7]

And this is all relative. I had the chance to do a track day at Daytona right after I bought the 2019. With just a RSB, everything else completely stock, including the pads, fluid, and tires. I ran high 2:20's and had zero pad fade. Obviously, I wasn't pushing the car, but I wasn't put-puting around either, I was running the kind of pace I would on a mountain road.

If you aren't trying to set track record or wanting to push it, pads, decent tires, and fluid will be fine.

Once you start pushing though, you'll quickly find the limits of a mild setup like that though.

Then it's time for real brakes, camber, alignment, sticky tires, cooling mods, etc...

You seem experienced, so if you start getting some softness in the brake pedal, the tires start to get greasy, or temps get out of hand, you can just back off some. It's not rocket science.

Good advice.

Make sure your fluids are fresh and topped up, maintenance is up to date, and all your consumables (tires, pads, rotors, etc) are in excellent shape as a bare minimum. In other words, make sure your car is safe.

The killer for NON-PP front brakes is cooling (due to both lack of thermal mass and ventilation). The brake cooling ducts from the Audi RS3 are cheap, easy to install, and make a marked difference. Going out in a stock configuration, I'd consider them. Upgrading your brake fluid would also be something to consider. Pads and other upgrades are definitely worth investing in as soon as possible, but if you drive within the limits of your setup, they can wait.

Something else to note - learn proper threshold braking. If you're not familiar with the concept, just search for it online. I'm sure there are plenty of articles that can explain it to you in depth. Having been tracking cars for over 15 years I can say with 100% confidence that improper braking techniques are the #1 killer of brakes. You need to be on the brakes hard, get your braking done before you begin to turn into a corner, and for the shortest amount of time possible in order to safely slow the car down.

Many beginner/novice drivers tend to brake way too early and for far too long putting completely unnecessary strain and heat into the braking system. This dramatically reduces their effectiveness and their ability to properly cool between applications. Learn the proper braking points at your track. Not only will your brakes last longer and perform better, you'll also be quicker than your friends. Win-win.

Enjoy!