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How to deal with throttle lag / DSG lag on MK7.5 GTI?

jdiamondGolfMK7

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
TX
I test drove a '20 MK7.5 GTI SE, and it was a super blast! Every hit of the gas pedal, I'd spin the front tires a little and spurt ahead. It was fresh off the dealership, so I know it wasn't chipped.

BUT THEN, I test drove a '21 MK7.5 autobahn. Pressing the accelerator did... nothing. I've seen complaints of 1-2 second lags, but this seemed to take 4-5 seconds! (Although that might just be my perception.)

I realize a DSG shift can take longer than an automatic shift, so I made sure traction control was off and put myself in paddle shift mode so the DSG wouldn't have to decide to downshift, but it STILL it took over 2 seconds to get any response from the throttle! Given that high torque starts at just 1,500 RPM, I'd've thought the turbo would be spooled up already....

I looked on other forums (there's a lot of complaints about this), but there wasn't a silver bullet: Some people hacked a setting that switched the throttle mode from "timed mode" to "distance mode" (which I guess hurts gas mileage?), but it didn't fix the problem for everyone. [ I guess it waits 2 seconds to see if you're serious about pushing the throttle? I'd call that Prius mode. ] Some people did a DSG tune.

I'm curious as to why I saw this so badly on one GTI but not another? Some learning algorithm? Different software for '21?

Has anyone tried a DSG tune on a GTI? Would it help at all with the lag issue? And if you do a DSG tune on a 2019+ GTI, would you lose the fancy engine shut down / jump to neutral that's so good for gas mileage?

Thanks for any feedback / stories about throttle lag on the MK7.5 GTI and anyone who's fixed it. :)

This, and the DCC Nanny are my two biggest fears about the later MK7 models...
 

blaqsheep

Autocross Newbie
Location
Canada
Car(s)
IS38 GTI
Welcome to drive by wire. At the end of the day, remember it is a Golf - easy driving, good fuel economy.

The transmission does learn a bit of your behaviour, but throttle response should be similar. Not sure what your definition of lag is, what gear are you in when you floor the accelerator?

The "hacked setting" doesn't do anything and is a placebo. You have 2 options:

1. BMS Pedal Box/Sprint Booster/etc.
2. Tune, which will alter throttle response
 

jdiamondGolfMK7

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
TX
Thanks for the idea of remapping the gas pedal. It seems like that wouldn't work if the software is just waiting things out - it just would turn a light press into a heavy press?

I forgot to check the gear I was in, but I most noticed this when driving around 45 mph in lower RPMs (~2500) so maybe 3rd gear? Even when holding the gear using the paddles, I could stomp on the gas and count to 4 before I'd see any acceleration at all. As if it had ignored my act of flooring it until then. When I was in a parking lot, it would respond immediately. And it wasn't a slow build up as if the engine was simply weak - it was like nothing at all, then a reasonably strong engine response.

Still interested if anyone out there has done a DSG tune on their GTI. I know this is common in Rs, but I haven't see much on the GTI front.
 

norsairius

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United States Midwest
Car(s)
2019 GTI SE DSG
I had the same concerns with lag when I first got my 2019 SE last summer. That said, the car seemed to drive better as time went on. Two possibilities:
1. I got used to it and adapted to throttle/transmission tuning
2. The car did its learning thing and adapted to my driving style over time since they're all so smart these days

That said, I still feel the DSG is overly eager about shifting up to the highest gear possible as soon as possible so it would be nice if the shift points were moved to shift just a biiiit later. I've also observed that the transmission can be slow to kick down after stomping the gas. I haven't done that in a while though since it's winter here and I don't see the point in roasting my winter tires, so it could very well be better now. I haven't had issues getting the car to downshift for the occasional passing maneuver at least.

I otherwise haven't tried a DSG tune and don't think I will. I don't feel the need to right now, at least, though I've read many positive things about them.
 

YamR1rider

Go Kart Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
Still interested if anyone out there has done a DSG tune on their GTI. I know this is common in Rs, but I haven't see much on the GTI front.
Yes lots of people have, myself included (APR in my case, along with an ECU tune of course. 2017 GTI. ). And yes.... it sorts out that lag issue you describe (especially in D where it's worse). A most annoying thing for me pre-tune was the hesitation off the line in circumstances where you wanted it to be sharp (quickly getting out into a gap in traffic say).

Of course my car is older so might not apply directly to what you are trying to find out but I'd hope a decent DSG tune would have the same good effect on a newer car.
 

Dog Dad Wagon

Autocross Champion
Location
Innnnn West Philadelphia...
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
I had the same concerns with lag when I first got my 2019 SE last summer. That said, the car seemed to drive better as time went on. Two possibilities:
1. I got used to it and adapted to throttle/transmission tuning
2. The car did its learning thing and adapted to my driving style over time since they're all so smart these days

That said, I still feel the DSG is overly eager about shifting up to the highest gear possible as soon as possible so it would be nice if the shift points were moved to shift just a biiiit later. I've also observed that the transmission can be slow to kick down after stomping the gas. I haven't done that in a while though since it's winter here and I don't see the point in roasting my winter tires, so it could very well be better now. I haven't had issues getting the car to downshift for the occasional passing maneuver at least.

I otherwise haven't tried a DSG tune and don't think I will. I don't feel the need to right now, at least, though I've read many positive things about them.

I had a 2019 SE DSG loaner for a month last year. Just drive is S mode, always. You don’t lose any gas mileage at all, just gain throttle response and on-tap power.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Thanks for the idea of remapping the gas pedal. It seems like that wouldn't work if the software is just waiting things out - it just would turn a light press into a heavy press?

I forgot to check the gear I was in, but I most noticed this when driving around 45 mph in lower RPMs (~2500) so maybe 3rd gear? Even when holding the gear using the paddles, I could stomp on the gas and count to 4 before I'd see any acceleration at all. As if it had ignored my act of flooring it until then. When I was in a parking lot, it would respond immediately. And it wasn't a slow build up as if the engine was simply weak - it was like nothing at all, then a reasonably strong engine response.

Still interested if anyone out there has done a DSG tune on their GTI. I know this is common in Rs, but I haven't see much on the GTI front.
I've done the DSG tune via Cobb. Tried Stratified first and it was good and then got the EQT DSG tune and it's fantastic especially in sport mode.
 

nosmirk

Ready to race!
Location
SoCal SGV
Car(s)
19 GTI SE DSG, Cat7?
I had a 2019 SE DSG loaner for a month last year. Just drive is S mode, always. You don’t lose any gas mileage at all, just gain throttle response and on-tap power.
^
This. I'm always in Sport and don't notice any real lag or delay, especially when compared to normal drive. I think the gearbox knows this now and just puts me in sport as soon as I back out of the driveway. For the last month, after backing out and shifting to D, it's already in Sport and since i've trained myself to pull down an extra time, it puts me back in non-sport. Or i'm losing my mind... which is totally possible.

That said, i'll probably get the DSG tune just for other reasons unrelated to any lag. Maybe i can reverse the directions, the R56 Aisin is opposite of the ones on the GTI (pull back to upshift, forward to downshift) 12 years of down to upshift is a hard habit to break.
 

norsairius

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United States Midwest
Car(s)
2019 GTI SE DSG
I had a 2019 SE DSG loaner for a month last year. Just drive is S mode, always. You don’t lose any gas mileage at all, just gain throttle response and on-tap power.
Yeah, I noticed that the shift points in S mode are actually pretty good for daily driving, especially compared to what they were with the 6-speed DSG. The downshifts do feel rougher though. I really don't mind regular "D" / drive mode these days as it's been fine lately. I usually just use the paddles to downshift any time I want more on-demand power. I'll have to experiment more when the weather warms up and I'll have my warm weather wheels/tire set on the car again since that'll help put the power to the ground more effectively.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
As said above, pedal box is the only way to get more go for a given amount of pedal travel. The VCDS/OBDEleven changes that get offered up don't do a thing and one of them can hose your cruise control. Here's a good graph of what the pedal tuner does. ECU/TCU tunes help immensely with this issue.
Capture.JPG
 

Desslok

Autocross Champion
Location
PA
Car(s)
2019 Rabbit
As a proud new owner of a pedal tuner, I can say it really works. Requires less pedal effort to get moving and makes the car feel much more responsive.

DISCLOSURE: My car is a 6MT. Doubt that makes any difference in throttle response, but just in case.
 
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tigeo

Autocross Champion
As a proud new owner of a pedal tuner, I can say it really works. Requires less pedal effort to get moving and makes the car feel much more responsive.
I have always wanted to try one - the graph shows how it works clearly but still would like to experience it.
 

Dog Dad Wagon

Autocross Champion
Location
Innnnn West Philadelphia...
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
I have always wanted to try one - the graph shows how it works clearly but still would like to experience it.

it definitely makes a bigger difference with DSG cars than manual, but I’ve only tried on a DSG car so can’t speak from experience. The APR Plus tune on my manual Alltrack has 100% perfect throttle mapping, very OEM feeling and still lots of variable control over low-throttle power, but much more noticeable differences between each 5-10% segment of pedal travel.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
I have always wanted to try one - the graph shows how it works clearly but still would like to experience it.
You should. I have mine set to the highest setting meaning the most throttle response. The reaction of anyone who drives it, with me in the car, is wow that throttle is sensitive or they just instantly back off the throttle because it startled them. The tune plays a small role also.
 
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