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How does the GTI EA888 Engine Make So Much Power?

yantastic

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
New York
Genuinely curious and skeptical at the same time, how are aftermarket tunes on the STOCK GTI pushing close to 300HP and sometimes over?! Are the engine internals really that strong? The new WRX can't hold a candle to these aftermarket GTI tunes. An example is the MAPerformance Stage 1 tune for WRX (268 WHP, 295 WTQ), while GTI's pushing way more. Any thoughts?

MK7 VW GTI Stock (w/ MK7 GTI VWR Intake)
Wheel Horsepower - 207
Wheel Torque - 282

MK7 VW GTI w/ Unitronic Stage 1 Plus Software
Wheel Horsepower - 282
Wheel Torque - 325

MAP OTS Tune - 93 Octane
Wheel Horsepower - 303
Wheel Torque - 379

Stratified Tune - 93 Octane
Wheel Horsepower - 297
Wheel Torque - 329
 

TechGuy32

Ready to race!
Location
My Place
German car makers in general build engines with a safety factor greater than many other companies. Most of the VW engines can accommodate a significant power increase over stock if done properly.
 

Twist1

Autocross Newbie
edit: Fack Diggs beat me to it..


Cast Iron Block


Closed Deck Head Design


Drop Forged Rods


Forged Crank



Forged Pistons.


It's because VW has their process down to a T. They own everything. They could afford to make the golfs a 700hp capable 4 cylinder if they wanted to. They sandbag the numbers due to overseas insurance and marketing placement, and build them for longetivity.


They realized (a very simple equation) it's easier to make TSI and Audi/Some Porsche Motors out of the same materials/processes than source different ones for different purposes. Just detune what you need to put the cars in their respected markets and have the others loaded a little hotter. American and other euro car makers have them coming out of the factory slightly hotter and save money on the materials. There's no other car manufacturer that has perfected a commercial engine design more so than VW and their robotically made TSI engines
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
iron block
forged pistons
forged crank
drop forged rods <—- weakest link assuming good tune and not lean

None of these things make power, they all make reliability.

Power is made in the top end of the motor. Head and cam design, intake manifold, turbo system, etc.

It's a good engine, but it's not doing anything unprecedented. Plenty of Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi engines are capable of significant power and reliability. Stock DSM 4G63s from the early 90s hold over 500awhp reliably, but the old school stuff loses a lot more drivability at high power levels than the modern stuff.
 

Shane_Anigans

Drag Race Newbie
Location
SE MI
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
None of these things make power, they all make reliability.

Power is made in the top end of the motor. Head and cam design, intake manifold, turbo system, etc.

It's a good engine, but it's not doing anything unprecedented. Plenty of Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi engines are capable of significant power and reliability. Stock DSM 4G63s from the early 90s hold over 500awhp reliably, but the old school stuff loses a lot more drivability at high power levels than the modern stuff.
Technically yes, they make reliability, but in this context its the same. The engine in a top-fuel/funny car makes 10000hp, and is reliable for exactly 1,320 ft of use. The car that wins the 24hr endurance race could easily make more power, but it has to last the entire race. F1 engines made more power in the days before the FIA added durability/reliability into the rulebook, so a late 1980s car could push 1,500hp in qualifying trim, but it only needed to survive a few hot laps.

So I think what everyone's trying to say here is that the strength and durability of the bottom end is what enables tuners to dial it up to the 300hp range with everything stock and not have customers complaining that their engines needed rebuilding after 50,000 miles. Engine tuning on the EA888 would not be nearly as popular if that were the case.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
So I think what everyone's trying to say here is that the strength and durability of the bottom end is what enables tuners to dial it up to the 300hp range with everything stock and not have customers complaining that their engines needed rebuilding after 50,000 miles. Engine tuning on the EA888 would not be nearly as popular if that were the case.

The Subaru community proves otherwise, lol.

Outside of Subarus and the most basic economy car engines, just about everything today will reliably hold 300hp.

Our engines will hold 500 and still maintain a fair degree of reliability. Mine has been at 390+whp for the last 18K miles and shows no signs of issues.

The OPs question was about making power, which is all the top end and the turbo. It's just nice that we have a solid bottom end to support it.

can someone provide me a link ( trustworthy) that shows we have forged pistons please

It's definitely fair to question this. There are a lot of good reasons why factories almost never use forged pistons (thermal expansion being a huge one).

Most of the legendary engines had cast pistons. 2JZ, 4G63, all the Honda's, etc.

Some have hypereutectic which people mistakenly call "forged".
 
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Carlosfandang0

Drag Racing Champion
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 3Dr GTi DSG CSG
The Subaru community proves otherwise, lol.

Outside of Subarus and the most basic economy car engines, just about everything today will reliably hold 300hp.

Our engines will hold 500 and still maintain a fair degree of reliability. Mine has been at 390+whp for the last 18K miles and shows no signs of issues.

The OPs question was about making power, which is all the top end and the turbo. It's just nice that we have a solid bottom end to support it.



It's definitely fair to question this. There are a lot of good reasons why factories almost never use forged pistons (thermal expansion being a huge one).

Most of the legendary engines had cast pistons. 2JZ, 4G63, all the Honda's, etc.

Some have hypereutectic which people mistakenly call "forged".



If you like high power modded euro’s check out Ricky’s channel, LLF, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0S5w-TQJywcsni8ZMzgqkg

Here’s a couple of 500+BHP mk7’s from his channel,

https://youtu.be/qTGp6PW7JxA

https://youtu.be/SGy0wL303dE
 

Diggs24

Autocross Champion
Location
de plains! de plains!
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Fairly specific response to have been made up and don't see any reason for him to lie.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...-or-Forged&p=94602673&viewfull=1#post94602673

Makes sense too. What typically goes, assuming you have a good/not lean tune? The rod snaps. When we see piston issues on these cars it typically is melted (that IS38 JB4 car) or beaten to death by misfires (that EU one that was at 6k in 6th all out). Other bad motors seem to be spun rods, lifted head. Don't really see many ringland issues or cracked pistons.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Fairly specific response to have been made up and don't see any reason for him to lie.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...-or-Forged&p=94602673&viewfull=1#post94602673

Makes sense too. What typically goes, assuming you have a good/not lean tune? The rod snaps. When we see piston issues on these cars it typically is melted (that IS38 JB4 car) or beaten to death by misfires (that EU one that was at 6k in 6th all out). Other bad motors seem to be spun rods, lifted head. Don't really see many ringland issues or cracked pistons.

That's a very specific response.

You would either have to have inside info from VW or you'd have to send the piston out to a lab to determine that it's 142 Alloy. Maybe an XRF scanner could do it, not sure, but that's a $25k tool that I can't imagine an auto shop buying.

Regardless, I trust the pistons more than the head bolts or the rods.
 
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