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How are the EQT OTS / base Accessport tunes?

Agray

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Washington
Last edited:

Ghost GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
Guys, I apologize for the amateur question, but just want to make sure I understand what I am looking at with datalogging. I've been monitoring knock retard on each of my cylinders in my AP ever since I went EQT Stage 1 (ECU and TCU), as well as reading discussions here in the forum of acceptable knock retard values. I've also done some additional research outside of the forum to understand knock retard.

Here is what I am seeing, and if I understand knock correctly, when I should or should not worry.
  • During normal driving (no more than 30% throttle), I see absolutely zero knock in my AP. This is obviously perfectly normal and if I was seeing knock during regular driving, then either the tune would be absolute shit, or my car would be having major issues.
  • When I drop into Sport, and go balls out, I see knock values of around -3.7, across all cylinders. This is seen after I am done with a pull, and the car has shifted between gears.
    • Knock in this case is normal ONLY IF the knock happened as the gears shifted. If I understand correctly, knock retard can literally happen if physically the engine moved.
    • If I logged the pull and I see knock retard within a single gear as it goes through the RPM range, then it is an issue and a cause of concern.
    • If I read correctly, for our cars, I likely don't want to be seeing these knock values, and it shouldn't be below -3 or so?
If I am correct with what I said above, is there anything else of importance? Any recommendation of reading material about knock retard? Thanks!
 

ChrisMk77

Autocross Newbie
Location
Sweden
Car(s)
2018 GTI Performance
Guys, I apologize for the amateur question, but just want to make sure I understand what I am looking at with datalogging. I've been monitoring knock retard on each of my cylinders in my AP ever since I went EQT Stage 1 (ECU and TCU), as well as reading discussions here in the forum of acceptable knock retard values. I've also done some additional research outside of the forum to understand knock retard.

Here is what I am seeing, and if I understand knock correctly, when I should or should not worry.
  • During normal driving (no more than 30% throttle), I see absolutely zero knock in my AP. This is obviously perfectly normal and if I was seeing knock during regular driving, then either the tune would be absolute shit, or my car would be having major issues.
  • When I drop into Sport, and go balls out, I see knock values of around -3.7, across all cylinders. This is seen after I am done with a pull, and the car has shifted between gears.
    • Knock in this case is normal ONLY IF the knock happened as the gears shifted. If I understand correctly, knock retard can literally happen if physically the engine moved.
    • If I logged the pull and I see knock retard within a single gear as it goes through the RPM range, then it is an issue and a cause of concern.
    • If I read correctly, for our cars, I likely don't want to be seeing these knock values, and it shouldn't be below -3 or so?
If I am correct with what I said above, is there anything else of importance? Any recommendation of reading material about knock retard? Thanks!
Never having knock sensor correction in a pull is unrealistic, but the more the sensors have to correct the less accurate they get.

If the fuel/tune combination you are running always sees corrections on pulls I would see thing over or change tune/adjust.

I overfueled my way out of any KR concerns being tuned for E35-40 but able to run full E85 with HPFP upgrade but can still see some minor correction.

https://datazap.me/u/chrismk77/eqt-custom-stage-2-hpfp-e-blend-5?log=1&data=8-17-28&zoom=194-328
 

Ghost GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
Never having knock sensor correction in a pull is unrealistic, but the more the sensors have to correct the less accurate they get.

If the fuel/tune combination you are running always sees corrections on pulls I would see thing over or change tune/adjust.

I overfueled my way out of any KR concerns being tuned for E35-40 but able to run full E85 with HPFP upgrade but can still see some minor correction.

https://datazap.me/u/chrismk77/eqt-custom-stage-2-hpfp-e-blend-5?log=1&data=8-17-28&zoom=194-328
Thanks for showing your log. So in your case, this was logged entirely in 3rd gear, and the knock is seeing only down to -1.7, and this is a realistic and okay amount of KR to see. What I should do then is go log and see KR in each gear. If I am seeing -3.7 like the AP showed while speeding in the same gear, then I'll need to address it.
 

ChrisMk77

Autocross Newbie
Location
Sweden
Car(s)
2018 GTI Performance
Thanks for showing your log. So in your case, this was logged entirely in 3rd gear, and the knock is seeing only down to -1.7, and this is a realistic and okay amount of KR to see. What I should do then is go log and see KR in each gear. If I am seeing -3.7 like the AP showed while speeding in the same gear, then I'll need to address it.
If you have over -3 on multiple cylinders that is recurring you need to adress it, this is what Cobb OTS 95Ron(91US) looked like for me running E30 lol.
https://datazap.me/u/chrismk77/cobb-stage1?log=2&data=9-13-22-23-24-25&zoom=502-851
 

Ghost GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
Last edited:

Dog Dad Wagon

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Innnnn West Philadelphia...
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
I had a half a tank of gas - I filled up but still 93 but it was Exxon gas station vs US gas on initial. Temperature wise it was actually warmer about 10 degrees or so. other than those 2, no other factors have changed just addition of commute mileage

https://datazap.me/u/barische/3rd-gear-eqt-stage-1?log=0&data=2-12&trim=0&tmin=0.02&tmax=12.01

https://datazap.me/u/barische/log-1603929331?log=0&data=5-12

https://datazap.me/u/barische/log-1603929331?log=1&data=5-12

let me know if these work - first time using datalog and COBB AP
It was the US Gas. Only run Shell, Exxon, BP, Sunoco, or if you've got it Costco. the big name top tiers. And even within those big names, make sure you go to stations (like Costsco) that do lots of business. Not the family-owned gas station in the cute part of town that sells sunoco fuel, and not the back-water stations either. Places that move product all day long have better maintenance, fuel filters replaced often, less opportunity for water to buildup in the fuel.

I would even trust non top-tier brands that are still recognizable, trustworthy consumer brand names that do a lot of business. For example, for the longest time I would only go to Shell or Sunoco. I live in the northeast and work for a convenience store that does not sell top tier, but we sell like 200K gallons per store per week at 700 locations, so i know we are on top of maintenance. i recently made the decision to buy from my company (that i have worked for for 9 years). I run APR's 87 octane tune on my 1.8 so it'd be interesting to do some logs on my company's gas... I'm gonna do that.
 

aaronc7

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Clovis, NM
Anyone mind looking over some of my logs to make sure everything is looking good?

EQT Stage 1 93 Octane 7 Speed DSG in Sport
4th Gear: https://datazap.me/u/ghostgti/eqt-s...ar-pull?log=0&data=1-3-8-11-15-20-26-27-28-29
3rd Gear: https://datazap.me/u/ghostgti/eqt-s...r-pull?log=0&data=1-7-10-14-19-25-26-27-28-29

Besides this, I will rarely see KR at -1.88 in some cylinders in regular driving when I give a bit more throttle in D (30%+ throttle).
Looks OK to me...could be a little better, sure. Could try a different gas station or something. But either way nothing to lose sleep over unless you're starting to see worse than that consistently. Sometimes I'll have a 'bad' pull, then I'll do 3 more with zero knock, so who knows. It's not going to be clean every run, every time.
 

Ghost GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
Looks OK to me...could be a little better, sure. Could try a different gas station or something. But either way nothing to lose sleep over unless you're starting to see worse than that consistently. Sometimes I'll have a 'bad' pull, then I'll do 3 more with zero knock, so who knows. It's not going to be clean every run, every time.
I appreciate it. Yeah I had a couple of other pulls with no knock. I'd say its half with no knock, have with knock like the logs shown. I've seen other times where KR went up to -2.75 but did not get any today.

I've been consistently going to a Shell near my house so I'll go somewhere else as a test. I'll keep monitoring and if I see higher than 3s I'll report back with more logs.
 

aaronc7

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Clovis, NM
I appreciate it. Yeah I had a couple of other pulls with no knock. I'd say its half with no knock, have with knock like the logs shown. I've seen other times where KR went up to -2.75 but did not get any today.

I've been consistently going to a Shell near my house so I'll go somewhere else as a test. I'll keep monitoring and if I see higher than 3s I'll report back with more logs.
It's funny but I have definitely seen a connection between driving it hard and knock. After a few pulls it definitely knocks less. And I am much more likely to pick up some knock if I have been cruise control set for a while, then suddenly downshift and get on it. Obviously a limit to this....driving it really hard, heat is going to become a factor. Even just shifting to S about a minute before doing a pull (and car will naturally downshift a gear or two and hold revs in the 3k range or maybe a tad higher)...it seems to less likely to knock. Maybe it's in my head, but not the first time I've seen this with direct injection turbo vehicles. If you read into LSPI Low speed pre ignition, it kinda makes sense and possibly related to that.
 

Ghost GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
It's funny but I have definitely seen a connection between driving it hard and knock. After a few pulls it definitely knocks less. And I am much more likely to pick up some knock if I have been cruise control set for a while, then suddenly downshift and get on it. Obviously a limit to this....driving it really hard, heat is going to become a factor. Even just shifting to S about a minute before doing a pull (and car will naturally downshift a gear or two and hold revs in the 3k range or maybe a tad higher)...it seems to less likely to knock. Maybe it's in my head, but not the first time I've seen this with direct injection turbo vehicles. If you read into LSPI Low speed pre ignition, it kinda makes sense and possibly related to that.
When I have a chance I'll try to do a few back to back pulls to see if I see the same thing. Quick question, at what point should I be concerned with KR in part throttle?
 

aaronc7

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Clovis, NM
When I have a chance I'll try to do a few back to back pulls to see if I see the same thing. Quick question, at what point should I be concerned with KR in part throttle?
I don't see much part throttle KR in this car, but it's not nearly as concerning since cylinder pressure is so much lower.
 
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