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Hot Weather Track Days

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
It continues to climb upward if I didnt back off…I’d rather drive home in it instead riding in a tow truck.
Agreed. I've had to short shift for part of a lap to cool down, but usually in 95° + temps
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Don't know about oil standards, but I use Motul 5w40. Going to go to liquimoly as Motul no longer available. But I might have to do more research as HTHS is 3.5 vs 3.9.

Sounds like that's not a good thing for track, but again, don't know enough.
For track you want high HTST and low NOACK volatility (evaporative loss).

Motul Sport is no longer available, but you can get motul x-cess gen2 5w40 or even 300v 5w40 through FCP. LiquiMoly is rather overrated IMO.

If you want to buy a german-sourced oil with excellent high stress properties, try Rowe. 4.1 HTST and only $8/L.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-rowe-parts/hightec-synt-rs-engine-oil-5w-40-5-liter/21063-538-03~row/
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Really any of the typical Euro oils with the VW502 00 approval are fine. M1 0W40 has PAO base and has been proven on track (Porsche). I've used LM Molygen and Leichtlauf 5W40. Currently I'm using 5W40 Euro from High Performance Lubricants...boutique PAO/ester base with HTHS of ~4. It's not cheap.

https://www.hplubricants.com/
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
FWIW I currently have M1 0w40 in my car. Not because it's used in a totally different naturally aspirated aluminum flat-6, but because I got it for $5/qt and Walmart was out of 5w40 that day. I have since stocked up on enough M1 5w40 for a couple changes, I personally value the higher HTST (3.8) over a slightly more volatile base--it's cheap enough that topping up mid-day isn't a huge issue, especially with an 8qt sump.
I also use ethanol regularly, which will generate more acidity, so a higher TBN (total base number) is especially valuable to me, and M1 has one of the highest on the market.

There's also the question of ZDDP/Molybdenum, which is a lot tougher to discern without doing your own virgin oil analysis. To my knowledge LM generally has less Zinc than M1 and despite the name does not contain Molybdenum in their VW approved oils, unless you use their oil additives (which is technically not VW approved).

And sure, it probably doesn't matter when you're doing 3-5k oil changes, but unless your $16/qt oil is getting changed at 10-15k intervals, I don't see the point.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
FWIW I currently have M1 0w40 in my car. Not because it's used in a totally different naturally aspirated aluminum flat-6, but because I got it for $5/qt and Walmart was out of 5w40 that day. I have since stocked up on enough M1 5w40 for a couple changes, I personally value the higher HTST (3.8) over a slightly more volatile base--it's cheap enough that topping up mid-day isn't a huge issue, especially with an 8qt sump.
I also use ethanol regularly, which will generate more acidity, so a higher TBN (total base number) is especially valuable to me, and M1 has one of the highest on the market.

There's also the question of ZDDP/Molybdenum, which is a lot tougher to discern without doing your own virgin oil analysis. To my knowledge LM generally has less Zinc than M1 and despite the name does not contain Molybdenum in their VW approved oils, unless you use their oil additives (which is technically not VW approved).

And sure, it probably doesn't matter when you're doing 3-5k oil changes, but unless your $16/qt oil is getting changed at 10-15k intervals, I don't see the point.
I need to look up the HTHS difference in M1 0W and 5W40. I would think they are the same/nearly the same.

Ok, 5W40 Euro is 3.9 and of course the PDS for 0W40 Euro doesn't list it. I'll find it over on BITOG. Ok..found it....3.6. Weird. Yeah, the 5W40 even though not as much PAO base is the better choice I think.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
I think we've discussed this before.. In general 5w40s will have a higher HTST than 0w40 from the same manufacturer. HPL doesn't do a 0w40 european, but if you look at their supercar formula you can see this is true:

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Super-Car-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

Of course, anything above the 3.5+ specified in VW 502 is probably fine. But given M1 5w40 and 0w40 are usually identical in price, I'll take the one that's slightly more durable.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I think we've discussed this before.. In general 5w40s will have a higher HTST than 0w40 from the same manufacturer. HPL doesn't do a 0w40 european, but if you look at their supercar formula you can see this is true:

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Super-Car-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

Of course, anything above the 3.5+ specified in VW 502 is probably fine. But given M1 5w40 and 0w40 are usually identical in price, I'll take the one that's slightly more durable.
Good stuff man. Yeah, the HPL 5W40 is what I've been running for the last year....over 4.0 HTHS! I think the allure of the 0W oils is the more "real syn" base vs. the usual 5Ws but whatever, total oil blend is what counts.
 

reverend_sean

Go Kart Champion
Location
Pittsburgh
I always pull the hood gasket/weather stripping off where the hood meets the cowl cover. It easily lifts right off and serves as a cheap alternative to a hood vent (IMO). I have done no kind of testing, but opening up a passageway for hot air to escape has to help a little at least.
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
I always pull the hood gasket/weather stripping off where the hood meets the cowl cover. It easily lifts right off and serves as a cheap alternative to a hood vent (IMO). I have done no kind of testing, but opening up a passageway for hot air to escape has to help a little at least.

Generally speaking, that is a very high pressure zone. You'll have to put some strings there and you'll probably see that it's actually forcing area back inside the hood. Cowl induction hoods are to get air in, not out for this reason.



For hot days on track - not sure if anyone has mentioned yet but you can run your heat on full blast (I usually close the two center vents, and point the two outers out the windows) which helps. Your heater core is just a smol radiator.
 

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
For hot days on track - not sure if anyone has mentioned yet but you can run your heat on full blast (I usually close the two center vents, and point the two outers out the windows) which helps. Your heater core is just a smol radiator.
My instructor vetoed this right away even though the heat is blowing out the side windows. I do it when I'm alone though in high heat. Makes about a 5° difference
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Good stuff man. Yeah, the HPL 5W40 is what I've been running for the last year....over 4.0 HTHS! I think the allure of the 0W oils is the more "real syn" base vs. the usual 5Ws but whatever, total oil blend is what counts.
IMO the oil forum guys get really hung up on bases and seem more concerned about price / mile than high stress applications.

I assume there are some tradeoffs with using VII to get the 0w40 low temp spread and the 5w40 formulations maintain slightly more viscosity at high temps as a result. Of course if you look at redline, 300v, or HPL, they can get similar HTST or better with a 0w40, but for $16-20/qt. 🤷‍♂️
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
IMO the oil forum guys get really hung up on bases and seem more concerned about price / mile than high stress applications.

I assume there are some tradeoffs with using VII to get the 0w40 low temp spread and the 5w40 formulations maintain slightly more viscosity at high temps as a result. Of course if you look at redline, 300v, or HPL, they can get similar HTST or better with a 0w40, but for $16-20/qt. 🤷‍♂️
Have you seen the HPL No VII line? No 5W40 but a Euro 5W30.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Have you seen the HPL No VII line? No 5W40 but a Euro 5W30.
If I was racing competitively and didn't care about costs, that's probably what I'd run. I bet you gain at least a few HP from running a 5w30 through the super tight clearances on these motors. Heck the TCR factory fill is Castrol 5w30.
 

JPB WORLDWIDE

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Providence, RI
Car(s)
19 Golf R, RIP GTI S
My instructor vetoed this right away even though the heat is blowing out the side windows. I do it when I'm alone though in high heat. Makes about a 5° difference
5 degree difference seems to be an extremely minimal amount of fluctuation for running the heat on track.
 

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
5 degree difference seems to be an extremely minimal amount of fluctuation for running the heat on track.
I mean that's the difference between being at 280 & having to slow for half a lap or keep going all out
 
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