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Help with 2.0 GTD going into limp mode frequently

G0RSQ

New member
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 GTD
My sons 2.0 GTD (2015) keeps going into limp mode, seemingly at random.
I set up ODIS Service on my laptp and ran a scan, and found lots of faults...So deleted them and asked him to bring it back to me next time fault occurred, which he did.
Codes main I got were:-
09:57:39​
P019300Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor "A" Circuit High Input
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received
09:57:39​
P032200Ign./Distributor Eng.Speed Inp.Circ. No Signal
09:57:39​
P065100Sensor Reference Voltage "B" Circuit Open
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received
09:57:39​
B10E7F0Cruise Control Front Distance Range Sensor separated
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received
09:57:39​
U112300Databus error value received

There are plenty of other codes from other modules, but suspect they are a result of the car going into limp mode, rather than the cause.

So I have replaced the Camshaft Position sensor and MAP sensor. The Crankshaft position sensor should have also been replaced today but the shop sent wrong one, so this will have to wait, and I am about to order a fuel pressure sensor.

However I am concerned about the Reference Voltage"B" fault. Would this be triggered by one of the mentioned sensors failing, or is this likely to be the cause of all the alarms.

I suspect the ECU generates the 5V reference "B".

The car entered limp mode again a few hours later, and exactly the same codes were present.

All codes are sporadic, and no codes remain when cleared, and car runs 100% until going into limp mode.

Is anyone experienced in reading the output of ODIS scan, who could help me fine tune the diagnosis?

My son took his car to two VW garages and neither have been able to help him, one even said there were no fault codes to read, yet have charged him a small fortune in investigations so far!

Scan results enclosed.

Any help or suggestions warmly welcomed.
 

Attachments

  • NO_ORDER_WVWZZZAUZGW065178_2022-04-26_22-03-58_dprot.zip
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golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
You've got loads of other faults in the ABS, Drivers door electronics, parking aid, air bags, etc., etc...might be the battery about to fail...

I use VCDS as it gives time/date stamps...that screen shot that you uploaded doesn't
 

G0RSQ

New member
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 GTD
You've got loads of other faults in the ABS, Drivers door electronics, parking aid, air bags, etc., etc...might be the battery about to fail...

I use VCDS as it gives time/date stamps...that screen shot that you uploaded doesn't
Thanks for taking time to read and respond.

When this issue first started my suspicion was the battery, so I drop tested it (cheap battery tester), and it said it was OK, but not 100%, so told my son to replace battery, which he did, but same issue. I then checked battery installation, cleaned terminals, and checked all connections to fusebox and all earth connections I could find, and all were OK.

I did not have any diagnostics available at that time, so also replaced the MAP sensor.

The ODIS report is time/date stamped to the second. The table shows all faults were logged at 9:57:39, so all happened at the same time. The ODIS report attached is HTML, and the events can all be opened (click on "+" for each event recorded) and full information read.

There are four persistent faults which occur seemingly not related to the car failing, and they are the AC Gas pressure (Ok not related) both door modules which indicate door warning lights (not sure what they are, as no lights on door connected, other than indicators in mirrors) and this is an ACTIVE fault, so my guess this is due to badly coded door modules (Golf's in UK often have a very shady history). and an alarm sensor, which I think is because I am sat in the car during testing.

All other codes emanate from the car going into limp mode (I enclose the diagnostics read after clearing all initial faults, which should have been attached instead of the one I did!). The common faults right at beginning is the engine speed (CPS) sensor, Reference voltage "B" (5V to sensors?) and fuel pressure sensor, though at time of logging all show sensible values!

It does also show other non related modules logging errors at exactly the same time, so agree battery or power a good shot, but new battery, and no bad connections found. Probably a good shot to check fuses for issues, so will do this when I next see him. One other oservation is this issue only first occured after a very minor scuff on left hand rear wheel arch (very minor scuffed paint on bumper (fender) and small (1") dent to panel where bumper joins. So minor I cant see how this could be an issue, but should take a look behind it.

However today while driving my Son said that the car juddered twice (quite significantly) like it would do before going to limp mode, but never actually went into limp mode! I scanned the car for some clues, but NO faults were recorded at all (Just door modules and AC gas pressure). No low voltage or missfire logged, so maybe chasing engine sensors is not the way to go. The trigger event is before sensors log faults!

So what could cause the engine to judder (glitch) twice like this, but not throw a code? Could this be a misfire? Would a momentary misfire be so noticeable in a Diesel? Should it have been logged in diagnostics if it did misfire? Sorry I have little experience of Diesels (my own car is a Mercedes SL500).

If this was not a misfire, what else can cause two rapid jolts from the engine?

Thanks
 

Attachments

  • New folder (3).zip
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golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Figured out the readings..all have different time/date stamps when you drill down & click the "+" next to "event memory entries" then "+" next to "standard ambient conditions" under every module...

(01 engine) logged five faults on 28/04/22
three at 20:30:23
one at 20:30:24
one at 20:33:38

(03 brakes) logged six faults on 28/04/22
two at 20:30:23
one at 20:30:24
two at 20:30:25
one at 20:30:33

(13 distance reg) logged six faults on 28/04/22
five at 20:30:23
one at 20:30:25

You also have faults under the airbags, power steering, for the same timeframes....

Bad wiring connection..I'd also clear again those fault codes & sort the drivers door out...you have various problems there...
 

G0RSQ

New member
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 GTD
Thanks again.

Yes just going over wiring diagram again, and have asked my son to bring car around tomorrow to check it out again.

When exiting ODIS, all fault codes are cleared and it re-checks for static faults.

Do you know what exactly are the "Door warning light / entry light Electrical error"? (I did not notice any lights on the front doors, but need to check more carefully.) Odd I get same fault for both control modules. Also just realised the car has four doors, but fault only indicates driver and passenger doors.. no modules for rear doors, so I guess each module covers front and rear door, so need to check rear doors also. Checking the identification for the modules, nothing suggests they have been swapped, so assuming they originally worked, then something must be upsetting them.

Being an intermittent fault makes fault finding virtually impossible, but I will check the door modules out, as I had originally eliminated them as unrelated, but I think you may be onto something..

Thanks again will try and look again tomorrow if he is available.

Peter
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Thanks again.

Yes just going over wiring diagram again, and have asked my son to bring car around tomorrow to check it out again.

When exiting ODIS, all fault codes are cleared and it re-checks for static faults.

Do you know what exactly are the "Door warning light / entry light Electrical error"? (I did not notice any lights on the front doors, but need to check more carefully.) Odd I get same fault for both control modules. Also just realised the car has four doors, but fault only indicates driver and passenger doors.. no modules for rear doors, so I guess each module covers front and rear door, so need to check rear doors also. Checking the identification for the modules, nothing suggests they have been swapped, so assuming they originally worked, then something must be upsetting them.

Being an intermittent fault makes fault finding virtually impossible, but I will check the door modules out, as I had originally eliminated them as unrelated, but I think you may be onto something..

Thanks again will try and look again tomorrow if he is available.

Peter

There are no rear door modules..only Audi or top end VW get these......the MK7 Golf "piggybacks" the rear doors off the front door modules..

The MK7 Golf doesn't have "door exit warning lights" fitted...the GTI/R have illuminated sill strips (front only) which wire to those outputs..

Is the car second hand??? as its a GTD somebody could have retro fitted door exit warning lamps (front only) to it which requires both the door modules to be coded...then removed the lights & refitted the basic red reflectors before they sold the car...

P.S. I did a how to guide on retro-fitting door exit warning lamps...
 

G0RSQ

New member
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 GTD
Hi

Yes it is a 2.0 GTD.

Car is second hand, don't know how many owners, (and is black, with black wheels, and blacked out rear windows (quite smart, but I would never admit that to my son :whistle:) so likely had a checkered history) so seems logical that the car may have been modified at some time.

However looking at the coding, if I am reading it correctly, byte 1 bit 2 is "0" (from your excellent write up on retrofitting the door warning lights), so seems it has not been coded for them! (I enclose identification from ODIS).

When I looked at car yesterday, the red lenses (inside lower edge of door) just un-clipped and no trace of a light or wiring behind them, so just acting as reflectors.

I am guessing that these modules will go into error as soon as the lights are turned on and a door opened, as I clear the codes when lights are turned off and doors closed.

So despite the mystery, I think I can eliminate these from investigation of engine issues.
 

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  • Module 42.pdf
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golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
I don't have my computer brain in gear for Hex/dec....For the door exit warning lamp fault code to activate, the modules must have been coded for them to then trigger a fault code...if the module is not coded for them it will not trigger the fault code..maybe the modules were taken from a GTI/R by previous owner..

They will not be causing the engine problems, I was just pointing out the car has numerous fault codes in several modules which need sorting..


You need to look at the time/date stamp off al the fault codes when the engine fails...then look at the earliest time stamp out of that batch of fault codes..thats the trigger causing a cascade..


PM me the reg plate....I have some info on crashed repaired & not declared MK7 Golfs in the UK...it might be on it....& having black wheels (known as the black wheels of doom) & tinted windows its likely to have been...especially with these problems..
 
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golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Looking in detail these are the first faults at the file you placed in post no.3:-

Address: 0001 System name: 01 - Engine electronics 1.6–2.0 TDI EU6 Protocol variant: UDS/ISOTP (Ereignisse: 5)
Entry in fault memory
Number:P032200: Ign./Distributor Eng.Speed Inp.Circ. No Signal
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:4087
Status:01101000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:2
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:255


Entry in fault memory
Number:P065100: Sensor Reference Voltage "B" Circuit Open
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:4124
Status:00101000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:2
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:255


Entry in fault memory
Number:P019300: Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor "A" Circuit High Input
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:5244
Status:00101000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:2
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:255
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Looking in detail these are the first faults at the file you placed in post no.3:-
Address: 0003 System name: 03 - Brake electronics Protocol variant: UDS/ISOTP (Ereignisse: 6)

Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:8274
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:3
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5

Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:8296
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:2
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Looking in detail these are the first faults at the file you placed in post no.3:-
Address: 0013 System name: 13 - Distance regulation Protocol variant: UDS/ISOTP (Ereignisse: 6)

Entry in fault memory
Number:B10E7F0: Cruise Control Front Distance Range Sensor separated
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:1043
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:6
Frequency counter:2
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5

Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:1046
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:6
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5

Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:1056
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:6
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5

Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:1058
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:6
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5

Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:1059
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:6
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
Looking in detail these are the first faults at the file you placed in post no.3:-
Address: 0076 System name: 76 - Parking Aid Protocol variant: UDS/ISOTP (Ereignisse: 1)
Entry in fault memory
Number:U112300: Databus error value received
Fault type 2:passive/sporadic
Symptom:13637426
Status:00001000
-Standard ambient conditions:

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793
Priority:6
Frequency counter:4
Unlearning counter / driving cycle:5
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
All the above have the same date/time stamp & the earliest out of the "batch"..

Date:28/04/22
Time:20:30:23
Mileage (DTC):154793


Loads of data bus errors....basically a bad connection...I wonder if the main ECU has been disconnected & not refitted properly...
 

G0RSQ

New member
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 GTD
Dave

Thanks for looking in detail.

Yes problem is I get a lot of errors all logging at the same time. Unfortunately ODIS doesn't order them purely time specific, but groups them with modules, so I do not know which one occurred first. Would be nice to get mS logging.

I am thinking maybe the LOGGING occurred at the same time, but faults may be marginally before this, say if the ECU went offline, so it only logged faults when it came back online!

Also as issues occurred on multiple modules at the same time I agree, either a power supply issue, or communication issue, but it is case of chicken or egg first....

I have just checked all main fuse connections, and double down on battery and earth connections. All looked 100%

I found a chaffed wire on the loom in front of oil filter, where it had rubbed against fan housing, where it had worn down and exposed a single wire conductor, which I recovered, and moved loom to stop re-occurring.
I changed Camshaft position sensor
I looked at Crankshaft position sensor (could barely see it) and after discovering one I had was incorrect left it. Will replace that when I get the correct one.
I found a broken electrical connector for the water-pump valve (under fuel pressure sensor) which is waggling around, so will replace that.
I will also replace the Fuel pressure sensor, and the one on the other end of the fuel rail (unsure what it is, but got a used fuel rail coming with both sensors on).

However, since I last looked at it it has not gone into limp mode, and behaved its self, other than two big jolts (that threw no codes), so fingers crossed it doesn't return (but I think it will!).

My wife and I are going on holiday next weekend, so wont be able to do any more investigation/work until we return, so will now have to wait and see what happens.

many thanks for support, its good to communicate about issues, as gets me re-thinking while typing.

Peter
 

G0RSQ

New member
Location
UK
Car(s)
2016 GTD
I don't have my computer brain in gear for Hex/dec....For the door exit warning lamp fault code to activate, the modules must have been coded for them to then trigger a fault code...if the module is not coded for them it will not trigger the fault code..maybe the modules were taken from a GTI/R by previous owner..

...& having black wheels (known as the black wheels of doom) ..

You wouldn't have a copy of the coding string before and after you made the change for door open lighting, or in some way indicate exactly which byte or bit was changed in the long code?

There may be a discrepancy in the way ODIS represents the bytes.


Not that important, but would be useful to understand what is going on.

Just answered my own question :)

Found a video and it shows this

1651493438118.jpeg

So from my coding, someone has turned ON all the lights on the door module "00111111" (ODIS calls this Byte 2).

Now to see if ODIS service can change coding, or if I need ODIS engineering, or VCDS.
 
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