Helix Soundbox Upgrade Information Post!

[flipflp]

With a 2018 I'm really concerned about the B vs non-B question. I only saw one person mention a non-B with a 2018 and they thought it was crap. 2 other people with 2018's got the B version and like it. I would tend to agree with @flipflp expecting they would be compatible, but would really like to hear first person success before dropping $$.

Anyone else with a 2018 get the non-B version?

I know this doesn't answer your last question, there should be a few people out there that can speak up, but everything I've seen regarding the B part number would indicate a "new production" with the part number change to identify that. Any internal changes to the DSP or sub box are not obvious and haven't changed the function of the unit from the previous version.

Also I'm fairly certain there are little to no stock on the non-B parts, so if that works on a 2018 or not may be moot.

 

[Moonray]

Maybe write to Helix, tell them you're selling your 2016 and want to know if system can be installed in a 2018?

 

[flipflp]

Maybe write to Helix, tell them you're selling your 2016 and want to know if system can be installed in a 2018?

I'm not completely sure what chilly's situation is, but if you're buying a new B part number now it shows it's compatible with all the same models and years as the non-B part, but with applications also extending to 2017-18+.

Because of the B part's backwards compatibility with older year model cars, you have to conclude they will function the same.

https://parts.vw.com/p/volkswagen__/Spare-Tire-Mount-Subwoofer--Soundbox/70346182/000051419B.html

See: What This Fits tab.

 

[Moonray]

Because of the B part's backwards compatibility with older year model cars, you have to conclude they will function the same.

"you have to conclude" ? Hmmm... I'd think it's possible (but unlikely) that B is backward compatible, but non-B not be forward compatible.

So nobody knows the reason for the non-B model being cleared out and B model being introduced?

 

[Cuzoe]

The way it gets wired your stereo does not know the Helix box is there. It speced for vehicles from 2009 through 2018 as long as we do not have Fender audio which uses MOST bus I believe. Line level speaker outputs from your stock radio or fed into the Helix which flattens, EQs (based on the programming for specific car) and amplifies the signal to your stock speakers and adds a high-level sub out channel. Nothing it does suggests both part numbers aren't back/forwards compatible, "B" is just the new revision.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

 

[flipflp]

"you have to conclude" ? Hmmm... I'd think it's possible (but unlikely) that B is backward compatible, but non-B not be forward compatible.

So nobody knows the reason for the non-B model being cleared out and B model being introduced?

How would it be possible, without changing anything about 2009-2016 year model cars that the Non-B part fit, for the B part number to not work with them? Or vice versa? The fitment page I listed from VW shows the B part is compatible with older applications, so it is definitely "backwards compatible" at least.

The Helix DSP has no link or data interaction with the car to check the year or model of the vehicle. It just takes the speaker level outputs, applies DSP settings based on what the user programs, and reamplifies that signal. There is nothing to how it functions that would not allow it to work with any vehicle with the correct connectors in the dash and an appropriate program through the dongle. Even without programming, it would still function but sound would not be optimized.

I've said it before regarding the B revision, this is a new production part and may have some very minor changes from the Non-B part. For all the research I've done, any changes would have to be internal to the DSP or sub box itself, as visually and functionally they work exactly the same. Even the same programming dongle works on both Non-B and B kits. I don't see any reason to treat the new B part number as anything but a revision part number.

Manufacturers will have revisions on parts to denote a change and track sales, warranty claims, etc. Helix/VW added a B to the old part number for this revision. That way if they start having large numbers of failures on the B part for example, they can be returned or recalled, or at least identified. Then they would resolve the issue and release a "C" part, etc.

The reason for the close out was likely because the inventory of the B part number was ready to ship to the US and in anticipation VW closed out the old stock. It's not a great idea to have new and old product mixed it a warehouse, so you use that clearance to make space for the new incoming product.

 

[Moonray]

How would it be possible, without changing anything about 2009-2016 year model cars that the Non-B part fit, for the B part number to not work with them? Or vice versa? The fitment page I listed from VW shows the B part is compatible with older applications, so it is definitely "backwards compatible" at least.

The Helix DSP has no link or data interaction with the car to check the year or model of the vehicle. It just takes the speaker level outputs, applies DSP settings based on what the user programs, and reamplifies that signal. There is nothing to how it functions that would not allow it to work with any vehicle with the correct connectors in the dash and an appropriate program through the dongle. Even without programming, it would still function but sound would not be optimized.

I've said it before regarding the B revision, this is a new production part and may have some very minor changes from the Non-B part. For all the research I've done, any changes would have to be internal to the DSP or sub box itself, as visually and functionally they work exactly the same. Even the same programming dongle works on both Non-B and B kits. I don't see any reason to treat the new B part number as anything but a revision part number.

Manufacturers will have revisions on parts to denote a change and track sales, warranty claims, etc. Helix/VW added a B to the old part number for this revision. That way if they start having large numbers of failures on the B part for example, they can be returned or recalled, or at least identified. Then they would resolve the issue and release a "C" part, etc.

The reason for the close out was likely because the inventory of the B part number was ready to ship to the US and in anticipation VW closed out the old stock. It's not a great idea to have new and old product mixed it a warehouse, so you use that clearance to make space for the new incoming product.

I basically agree, which is why I put "but unlikely" in parentheses. I only said lack of forward compatibility was a possibility, which it is, due to there being a known unknown (and chilly pointed out the lack of empirical proof). There is a tendency to discount or discredit the known unknown, and draw absolute conclusions hastily. I understand that one must make decisions in life, as chilly must. But I'm not chilly, so I feel no need to draw a conclusion (you'll have to excuse me, I have a "conclusion-phobic" element to my reasoning that grates on people's nerves).

 

[flipflp]

I basically agree, which is why I put "but unlikely" in parentheses. I only said lack of forward compatibility was a possibility, which it is, due to there being a known unknown (and chilly pointed out the lack of empirical proof). There is a tendency to discount or discredit the known unknown, and draw absolute conclusions hastily. I understand that one must make decisions in life, as chilly must. But I'm not chilly, so I feel no need to draw a conclusion (you'll have to excuse me, I have a "conclusion-phobic" element to my reasoning that grates on people's nerves).

Its not just possible, the VW website states the B model absolutely works with older models (pre 2017 when the B part started shipping). No reason to question that, VW says it right on their site.

Then, due to the function of the Helix as I said there is nothing that would stop the non-B part from working with newer models, if the B works with them as well. Same goes for the B on older models. The logic is all there, no leaps or unknowns.

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[Moonray]

I don't doubt the B version is backwards compatible, but do disagree that B being backwards compatible NECESSARILY means non-B is forward compatible, due to 1) known unknown in how (if at all) the non-B differs from B, and 2) the one known experiment had results inconsistent with your hypothesis. I'd still bet money that it'd work fine, I'm just less sure than you. Whatever.

I also suspect chilly knew both our POVs before he asked his question, which is why he asked for more empirical evidence. If so, our debate is backwards compatible.

 

[chilly1]

Also I'm fairly certain there are little to no stock on the non-B parts, so if that works on a 2018 or not may be moot.

Dang I think you're right here. I hadn't searched that thoroughly and thought I found some, but looks like it's all B's around. Thanks for the insights though - helps understand how the system is working at the very least. And I see now that the programming codes are just based on MKVII vs. MKVI even on the B, so any head unit changes (like relative output level or phase, etc.) aren't factored in anywhere. So should be fine.

 

[Moonray]

Yeah, the discounted version is gone. I figured you already had one lined up. I watched the clearance price pass by as I continued to car shop.

I've had it 2 weeks and listened to a WIDE variety of music styles and file types. I had been thinking the tweeters could still use upgrading mainly due to some disappointing vocals, but each time I traced it back to a lesser quality source. I'm far from being an audiophile but this system seems far pickier about source quality than my old custom system or home system (both decent). With a quality source, I'm happy with it.

 

[southpawboston]

Is the Helix supposed to come with one self-adhesive plaque or two? Mine came with one.

Does anyone who's not using theirs want to sell me one? I was thinking of affixing one on each of the front door speaker grilles.

 

[dbwat]

Is the Helix supposed to come with one self-adhesive plaque or two? Mine came with one.

Does anyone who's not using theirs want to sell me one? I was thinking of affixing one on each of the front door speaker grilles.

Mine came with one, which I haven't used. It's all yours, happy to drop it in the mail if you want to PM me your address. No $ required.

 

[spicedog]

Hey guys,

I just broke the potentiometer for the subwoofer gain on my Helix DSP/AMP, does anyone happen to know the resistance range on that potentiometer or if it's possible to purchase the DSP alone?

Thanks!

 

[southpawboston]

I don't know if this helps or not with the "B versus non-B" version debate, but I just installed a B version in my 2017, and programmed it with an older dongle, and it worked just fine.

As others have mentioned, there is no data linkage between the Helix and the car, so there's no way for there to be any software compatibility issues. The ONLY thing I can see being an issue, and I'm 99.99% certain it's not, is if the wiring harness blocks changed between 2016 and 2017, or the pin assignments on the MIB changed. I am fairly certain that is not the case. As others have said, all the Helix does is intercepts the speaker outputs from the MIB, then processes and amplifies those signals, and sends them to the speakers through the OEM wiring.