Helix Soundbox Upgrade Information Post!

[Cuzoe]

I added a 5 channel amp and DSP to replace the helix amp because I got tired of having the low bass filtered out from the subwoofer. The helix amp seems to have a high subsonic filter which cuts out the deep bass quite a bit Anyway, you can improve the sound if you are savvy with tuning. I'm not sure how many filters are available per channel on the helix, but my DSP allows 10 filters per channel and upto 20 filters if you get creative with the setup. I do not recommend tapping the sub signal from the helix because it is filtered too much; the helix sub is quite capable when fed a proper signal and more power.

Which amp and DSP did you go with. I'm using a mono amp for my sub already. But I am having an issue where the Helix goes into some sort of protect mode on shut down, about the same time that the main unit actually shuts off (so 30 seconds or so after the soft shut down).

The helix will not come out of this fail state unless ground is removed. I'm doing this with a time delay relay which works but is a hack. It means I'm waiting 30 seconds for sound when I start up the car which is fine. But I have to wait that same 30 seconds anytime the speakers are turned off while driving (volume all the way down, end of a playlist, or I just want to drive in silence). That 30 second wait means that if I'm driving without music playing I will also miss navigation directions. I would like to go with something small that will fit on my existing amp rack, as seen here. I could always cut and carpet another one, but I'm lazy. And already having all the speaker wires back there courtesy of the helix harness means adding a DSP and amp is easy.

I quite like idea of the Audio Control D-4.800. Thinking I could sum the front speaker level inputs to get full range. Then use the 4 channels to power/EQ the front stage. I don't really care about rear fill so I would probably leave the rear powered by the main unit and keep the fader to the front. I never have people in the back but if I do I can move the fader closer to center, and they can deal with un-EQ'ed sound. I would then assign the single line level output to sub duty, feeding my existing amp. Thoughts anyone, or other suggestions?

 

[Benihana]

I'm running an LC7i --> Dayton DSP-408 --> excelon X802-5.

The D-4.800 is legit, if you can go this route I would recommend it. While the helix is good for what it is, the customization options and flexibility of tune profiles with an aftermarket DSP is worth it in my opinion.


I can't see clearly how this is hooked up, but are you using all the black as negative and all the yellow as positive?

 

[Cuzoe]

In this picture I was just laying things out. The black wires are negative and the yellow positive but they are only correct coming out of the helix, the LC2i side is not connected properly in this pic.

The D-4.800 takes care of everything I need with one unit so I'm inclined to make it work. I've never done any real audio tuning. In my past vehicle setups I just had aftermarket head units that did time alignment and basic crossover settings. With those I was happy with a decent set of components on a low power aftermarket amp. The D-4.800 will be more power than I ever used in the past and I've already replaced the door speakers in this car.

I would be good with time alignment and flat-ish response I bet. Then I could play with doing actual tuning over time. I don't need another thing to dive into obsessively, haha.

 

[StealthGTI]

Hello,

The helix amp seems to have a high subsonic filter which cuts out the deep bass quite a bit Anyway, you can improve the sound if you are savvy with tuning. I do not recommend tapping the sub signal from the helix because it is filtered too much; the helix sub is quite capable when fed a proper signal and more power.

I agreed with this for my first year or two using my Helix subwoofer output to feed my LC2i and amp setup. It seemed very punchy at 80 Hz and my sub-bass adjustments seemed limited. Eventually, I figured out that I should try setting the LC2i's Accubass threshold setting to MAX. That made a huge difference! The sub-bass is much-improved. That's not to say that your setup isn't better. But I think the Helix subwoofer output is usable with proper settings. Take Care! -Scott

 

[Cuzoe]

Hello,


I agreed with this for my first year or two using my Helix subwoofer output to feed my LC2i and amp setup. It seemed very punchy at 80 Hz and my sub-bass adjustments seemed limited. Eventually, I figured out that I should try setting the LC2i's Accubass threshold setting to MAX. That made a huge difference! The sub-bass is much-improved. That's not to say that your setup isn't better. But I think the Helix subwoofer output is usable with proper settings. Take Care! -Scott

I had been slowly turning up the Accubass knob but hadn't got it maxed yet. It was getting better though. I always feel weird maxing anything out so i was sandbagging.

Measured my amp "rack" and it's just big enough for the D-4.800. Ordering that today. And I need to order a couple simple distro blocks. I ran 0 gauge to the back which is massive overkill for anything I will ever do so I'll split that to dual 4 gauge.

 

[boston_chris]

I added a 5 channel amp and DSP to replace the helix amp because I got tired of having the low bass filtered out from the subwoofer. The helix amp seems to have a high subsonic filter which cuts out the deep bass quite a bit Anyway, you can improve the sound if you are savvy with tuning. I'm not sure how many filters are available per channel on the helix, but my DSP allows 10 filters per channel and upto 20 filters if you get creative with the setup. I do not recommend tapping the sub signal from the helix because it is filtered too much; the helix sub is quite capable when fed a proper signal and more power.

I notice this subsonic filter all the time, so annoying. It sounds like you've confirmed that the filter is in the Helix and not the head unit, which is awesome.

Were you able to use the helix power supply for the new amp, or did you have to run more power from the battery?

 

[itsjonduhh]

also glad to hear the speakers and enclosure can handle more subsonic freqs... is there any direct replacement for the helix amp? or will more add-ons be required?

 

[Cuzoe]

I notice this subsonic filter all the time, so annoying. It sounds like you've confirmed that the filter is in the Helix and not the head unit, which is awesome.

Were you able to use the helix power supply for the new amp, or did you have to run more power from the battery?

This likely depends on what you mean by helix power supply? The helix is an integrated amp and dsp in one unit, running off the same power as the car's head unit (fuse 12 in the interior fuse box, 20A). I believe the helix has a 20A fuse as well. So if your new amp also has a 20A fuse you could use the power wires from the helix harness to power your new amp. I would run dedicated power/ground though.

also glad to hear the speakers and enclosure can handle more subsonic freqs... is there any direct replacement for the helix amp? or will more add-ons be required?

The Helix PP50DSP is basically a direct replacement, although it's no longer available and you would be going through the trouble for no gain. The helix kit available from VW is the PP50DSP but customized (electrical plug/harness and low profile sub box) to work with VW cars.

Any of the integrated DSP/Amps (Audio Control D-4.800, JBL MS-8 (long out of production), JL VXi series) are technically replacements for what the Helix does. All of these require/allow manual tuning. And I would run dedicated power/ground for these, as they are more powerful than the Helix.

 

[itsjonduhh]

Dang, I don't know why I was expecting they'd cost less

But definitely good to know for a future upgrade. For me it really puts into perspective the value of the soundbox upgrade.

 

[Cuzoe]

Dang, I don't know why I was expecting they'd cost less

But definitely good to know for a future upgrade. For me it really puts into perspective the value of the soundbox upgrade.

Yea, DSP/Amp (professionally tuned), subwoofer, wiring harness, fully reversible... It's a damn good deal.

It occurred to me that unless I do some additional wiring I will be limiting the D-4.800 a little bit. Although there are 8 speakers in the car there are only 4 channels, with the mid and tweeter at each corner being run from the same output. Ideally I would use the 4 channels on the D-4.800 to run 4 front speakers (mid and tweeter on each side). I already have aftermarket speakers in the doors but I would replace the tweeters (although I really hate removing the A pillar trim).

You know what... this isn't really on topic for this thread, haha. But the Helix Soundbox... a worthy upgrade at MSRP, and you can usually find it with a discount, seeing 25% off from some dealers.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Yea, DSP/Amp (professionally tuned), subwoofer, wiring harness, fully reversible... It's a damn good deal.

It occurred to me that unless I do some additional wiring I will be limiting the D-4.800 a little bit. Although there are 8 speakers in the car there are only 4 channels, with the mid and tweeter at each corner being run from the same output. Ideally I would use the 4 channels on the D-4.800 to run 4 front speakers (mid and tweeter on each side). I already have aftermarket speakers in the doors but I would replace the tweeters (although I really hate removing the A pillar trim).

You know what... this isn't really on topic for this thread, haha. But the Helix Soundbox... a worthy upgrade at MSRP, and you can usually find it with a discount, seeing 25% off from some dealers.

Yeah, that was the part that sucked for me too… building a system with a dsp you really need to take advantage of the channels and factory wiring to the tweeters prevents that, so while I got to utilize cars factory harness to the doors I had to run dedicated tweeter signals to the back and like you I get annoyed with the a pillar covers . The all in one amps and dsp are primo but for me I went with the more cost effect route (also had some of the amps already) and did the Dayton mini dsp 8 channel that’s fed to 3 separate amps (1 for front drivers and tweeters, 1 for rear drivers, and 1 for the sub.)


But yes on the helix topic! I’d be interested in you helix amp/dsp for my Tiguan should you plan to sell it after you upgrade

 

[Cuzoe]

I'm actually thinking I'll keep the Helix harness in there. I don't really care about rear fill, but I can jump those wires right after the quadlock and leave them powered by the factory unit. I'll just keep everything faded to the front most of the time. Then the rear speaker wires that are in the helix harness will become front tweeter wires. They already run back to front (passenger side). I'll just have to extend a pair of wires across the front of the car to handle driver side tweeter, light work.

Just gotta decide on a set of components at this point. I'm running Infinity 62.11i 2 ways up front now (still with the stock tweeter connected). My doors have been treated and speaker adapter rings are already there so swapping to any other 6.5" is trivial. Based on the similar PP50 specs, the Helix would be around 70watts per channel so I'm not concerned with stock wiring and the D-4.800. It'll be at 4 ohms/125watts per channel and I've never hit 30% volume in the car so I won't get anywhere near that.

As an aside, I also don't trust my Helix amp. It goes into protect mode when powering down... it's a whole thing .

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Yeah sounds like the way you plan to utilize the helix harness is how the harness I made for my setup is - I got one of those ebay quad lock extension and just stole the speakers feed from headunit to the dsp (well to the lc7i first) and stole the door speaker feeds from the harness and then didn’t have to cut the factor harness. Then just had to run 16 + 2 new lines for the tweeters feed from the back to the front and wrapped that all up with Tessa tape and made a harness. (But yes a premade is much easier,lol)

Thanks for the note on the helix amp… cause I would be using it in the same method you use it now - so that’s a concern . I cannot fit the spare tire portion of it in the Tiguan cause it’s got the 3rd row and I won’t delete the spare.

 

[Cuzoe]

Gotcha... I'm running an Uberstealth box with a SI BM MKV. Provided the spec for my sub cutout when I ordered and asked for dual terminal cups so I have the option to switch the voice coil configuration without removing the sub. It fits down into the spare which I was also not willing to get rid of, all under the floor in the raised position.

I had zero problems with my Helix for several years until installing my MIB 2.5 (plug and play hacked unit). Had various problems with that unit (discussed elsewhere) which has since been replaced with a unit from the dealer that works flawlessly. I'm not sure that other unit caused the Helix problems, but that's when they started and the Helix has not recovered, haha. D-4.800 is being delivered today (couple days early) but I forgot to order the distro blocks and I have to work this weekend. Then I'll be out of town next weekend, so this is looking like a mid-late October deal at this point.

 

[Shuk'n'Jive]

Switching gears a bit from the current conversation, but this still seems like the most relevant place for my question and you guys seem WAY more knowledgeable on VW audio upgrades than me. It's no secret that the Helix Sub with DSP/Amp is NOT compatible with Fender/Beats factory systems. My questions is why not? I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the Fender amp that is already installed on higher trim cars, but has anyone actually tried installing the Helix in a car that has one of the premium factory systems to see if the Helix wiring harness will bypasses the amps in the Fender/Beats system??? (doubt anyone would ever consider this if they have the Dynaudio system). I've heard a few people comment that they thought the Helix system was actually a little better than the Fender system in some respects, and I can tell you it ABSOLUTELY blows away the Beats system in the Jetta/GLIs.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who sold my 2018 GTI to move over to a GLI.....I'm still on the fence about whether or not that was a good move. I pulled my Helix system before I sold the GTI and I'm REALLY disappointed in the Beats system in the GLI. Jetta/GLI forums are pretty lacking compared to the Golf/GTI/R community and figured I'd have a better shot at getting some advice over hear on whether or not it is possible to install Helix in a Fender equipped car without too many headaches........if so I'm thinking it should be same/similar process for GLI with Beats???