Helix Soundbox Upgrade Information Post!

[zech912]

I wonder if your belief the sound was better prior to dongle might be the initial surprise at the improvement, and then disappointment when you expected more from the tune. at any rate, I believe you could find the initial setting from next person who uses the dongle, because it flashes the number at the beginning I think. in any case, as another sq person, i believe you are on the right path, you will never be happy until you swap the speakers. the stock speakers are just not that good. not sure if you read prior but i describe my own path to swapping the speakers, I actually cleared it with Helix first, I run the Focal W-RC in the doors, with ES130K tweeters. It is a very good system now and i am comfortable with it, though it does not compare with the system in my other car.

 

[2013R]

I wonder if your belief the sound was better prior to dongle might be the initial surprise at the improvement, and then disappointment when you expected more from the tune. at any rate, I believe you could find the initial setting from next person who uses the dongle, because it flashes the number at the beginning I think. in any case, as another sq person, i believe you are on the right path, you will never be happy until you swap the speakers. the stock speakers are just not that good. not sure if you read prior but i describe my own path to swapping the speakers, I actually cleared it with Helix first, I run the Focal W-RC in the doors, with ES130K tweeters. It is a very good system now and i am comfortable with it, though it does not compare with the system in my other car.

During the moment we flashed the new program, I was listening before, then a 3-4 second pause, then it started again programmed with 57. I could easily tell the front stage was "busier" and "thicker". That is what I did not like. That also contributed to the muddiness. I am still thinking about buying a 2nd kit just to have an untouched amp, and then sell the extra kit to someone local. (Don't want to ship a 35 lb item...) I had that on video but the video was blocked from playing AT ALL on youtube due to copyright, so i uploaded one without the actual test.

The dongle does not flash/show anything about the amp you initially plug it into. It shows whatever code was used for the last flash programmed from the dongle. We confirmed this in my Helix video #3. I can't post video links here or I'll get banned for advertising my channel for monetary purposes. I will have to find your reply and post and read that. I like the sound of Focals even if its just a Polyglass line, though my Kevlar K2P were probably the best sounding speaker I ever owned. EDIT... your Focals are like $1000+ speakers.... not for me. lol..

 

[flipflp]

I changed my gain. Pics attached. It was maxed. I put it exactly half way for now. In other words, the red dot on my dial now faces directly up. Hopefully I don't lose tons of volume.

That gain is only for the sub output, it won't affect the system volume. (Edit: Saw you noted that above, missed that in your post)

What you're dealing with is gain staging from high level outputs into an amp without it being properly "leveled". IMO the Helix's biggest fault is that it doesn't internally create solid low level inputs and volume levels from the factory speaker inputs. You end up with a much smaller volume knob until the amp starts to distort or the flaws in your source start showing. That is the reason why at this point I wouldn't use the helix as a DSP and run it's speaker outputs to another LOC for external amps. I would have more gain to work with, but it would also be introducing a ton of distortion potentially.

Your point about going from 2ohm speakers to 4ohm has been discussed before. Half the wattage output, decreases the level, brings back your full volume knob potentially. But it also limits wattage, which means you're going to potentially underdrive a speaker that would love 50-100 watts of real power and is only going to get 25 tops. I'm not sure how it's going to ruin all of the DSP settings, or at least not any worse than just changing the drivers to the correct ohm ratings would because of each speakers response and characteristics.

Personal opinion, you got a plug and play upgrade for the base VW stereo for a few hundred bucks. Most folks see it as a HUGE improvement, especially over trading their car in for something with a Fender system (which is a questionable improvement, again IMO). It's not $10k in audio gear designed for SQL contests. Any changes you do might show some benefits, but you're still limited to a preset DSP, small amps, and a output volume that is about 50% too high.

 

[2013R]

That gain is only for the sub output, it won't affect the system volume. (Edit: Saw you noted that above, missed that in your post)

What you're dealing with is gain staging from high level outputs into an amp without it being properly "leveled". IMO the Helix's biggest fault is that it doesn't internally create solid low level inputs and volume levels from the factory speaker inputs. You end up with a much smaller volume knob until the amp starts to distort or the flaws in your source start showing. That is the reason why at this point I wouldn't use the helix as a DSP and run it's speaker outputs to another LOC for external amps. I would have more gain to work with, but it would also be introducing a ton of distortion potentially.

I understand all your points, solid. Just like when building a proper aftermarket system, the hi-level inputs will always sound 5x worse than low level inputs direct from source. But most people don't want to mess with the head unit to begin with, to get a super clean signal heading out to the processors/amps. I suppose in the large picture, this doesnt sound so bad considering its using low quality high-level inputs.

Two of us have emails out to Audio Fischer to see if they will tell us a way to reset the DSP and remove the program. I've just gotta find out if it was really cleaner before the program like I'm thinking..

 

[zech912]

The dongle does not flash/show anything about the amp you initially plug it into. It shows whatever code was used for the last flash programmed from the dongle.

interesting. i did not know that.

 

[flipflp]

interesting. i did not know that.

That's what caused the VW based rumor that the Helix was preprogrammed for 4-Door Golfs (57). That just happens to be the most common body style for a Golf, or for a Helix install. My guess is Audio Fischer didn't have that note in their white papers to VW and so it was just assumed after the first time a box was programmed. Not a huge deal, but it has caused some confusion and convincing of people that they need to program their units.

 

[Strange Mud]

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/helix-soundbox-upgrade-information-post.346458/
look here post #3....this may be worth a shot for updated codes.

Mud

 

[2013R]

That's what caused the VW based rumor that the Helix was preprogrammed for 4-Door Golfs (57). That just happens to be the most common body style for a Golf, or for a Helix install. My guess is Audio Fischer didn't have that note in their white papers to VW and so it was just assumed after the first time a box was programmed. Not a huge deal, but it has caused some confusion and convincing of people that they need to program their units.

yes, stealthgti's video coming out this Thursday will show that 100% with proof. from his visit to my house where we tested on both our Helix amps.

 

[flipflp]

I look forward to never having to convince anyone that programming is required again!

 

[zech912]

yes, stealthgti's video coming out this Thursday will show that 100% with proof. from his visit to my house where we tested on both our Helix amps.

so you believe the correct number for the GTI never was 57? that is wild if true.

 

[2013R]

so you believe the correct number for the GTI never was 57? that is wild if true.

no.. i never meant that. the correct number is "57" for sure. i simply preferred the raw un-tuned sound of pre-programming to my own physical eardrums.

I never liked time alignment because my passengers sound experience will be even worse. and i can tune the EQ myself by hand, i don't like a DSP choosing it for me. however, we have no info on what the "raw" settings are anyway.. maybe the crossover was different before programming, who knows..

i thought of a completely different idea... only using the amp for the sub.. but bypassing the speaker stuff to keep it stock. It would prob be more balanced actually.. but to figure all that out... i know you can buy a passthru cable to stick into your big harness at helix side to bypass it.. but that would also bypass the sub..

 

[flipflp]

so you believe the correct number for the GTI never was 57? that is wild if true.

I don't believe thats what he is saying. If I understand correctly they were looking to debunk if units were pre-programmed.

 

[flipflp]

i thought of a completely different idea... only using the amp for the sub.. but bypassing the speaker stuff to keep it stock. It would prob be more balanced actually.. but to figure all that out... i know you can buy a passthru cable to stick into your big harness at helix side to bypass it.. but that would also bypass the sub..

As long as you split the harness to still feed into the helix (since it needs at least 2 channels in to create the sub outputs) I don't know why you couldn't do that. Then you'd end up with factory sound for the speakers and then an amplified sub output.

That's a real long way around to just adding a sub to the factory stereo though.

 

[2013R]

I wish our amp had a USB to get this sweet interface..

 

[username205]

NEEDS from the community: If anyone has a stock door speaker or stock front tweeter out of car, please throw an ohm meter on the terminals and get me an exact reading. (Powered off, dead of course.) If the speaker is a 2 ohm speaker, it will show 1.6-1.7 ohms resistance on the meter. If it is a 4 ohm speaker it will show 3.4 ohms on the meter. I would love to throw some Focals in those spots, but the ohms would have to be just right.

You'd probably be better off finding higher impedance drivers with similar response curves, as there seems to be plenty of overhead with the Helix setup—my volume is uncomfortably loud after only 6 or 7 clicks.