Helix Soundbox Upgrade Information Post!

[Strange Mud]

curious...did Stealth listen/agree? I was quite happy with results after programing (wasn't expecting much/anything)

 

[Louiekaps]

I got together with StealthGTI today to program my Helix which i installed yesterday. We set it to 57, and I feel the sound actually didn't get better. It seemed that i lost a little bit of clarity. Best I can describe is everything was more raw and simple before i programmed it. Now I want to go back to how it was, but the problem is you never know how the amp is set before you program it. Plugging in the programmer will NOT tell you the current number of the setup, and StealthGTI will provide some info on that in the near future. I will probably buy my own dongle to have, so i can experiment and try to get back that sound it had before i touched it. Wish the amp had a reset button back to factory defaults.

Have you tried adjusting the EQ?

 

[jaypoto]

Have you tried adjusting the EQ?

I would second this. With the eq settings flat (a tad up in the bass) and the dongle programmed to my wagon I am very impressed with the sound quality coming out of the of the base speaker system. It is so clear and defined that I can turn it up to over 50% without any distortion. Before the sound was muddied and not nearly as clear.

 

[2013R]

its way better than stock, of course. but it had a nice purity before the programming. of course i have messed with the EQ.. i mess with it for each individual song.

 

[Diggs24]

i mess with it for each individual song.

You don't seem like the type that would tinker with every song.

 

[2013R]

You don't seem like the type that would tinker with every song.

ok you got me.. i mess with it for each channel i change to, different types of music. but i do adjust the bass on every other song. i didnt need to do that before i programmed.

 

[2013R]

curious...did Stealth listen/agree? I was quite happy with results after programming (wasn't expecting much/anything)

well, we didnt get that much time auditioning my system. he would not have been able to tell the difference. at first i heard it get thicker as soon as it came back on after the 57. but it was more "crowded" and slightly less clean.

im gonna find a way to decode that file and look at all the settings. i dont even like time alignment.. i was deep into stereos 10-15 years ago, measuring distance from each individual speaker to my headrest etc.. adjusting sub crossover 5hz at a time, testing 12/18/24 roll off slopes, etc... I been tweaking audio for 20 years or so.

 

[flipflp]

If you're that sensitive where you want to/need to adjust more than the volume song to song, you have some mighty golden ears!

I'm surprised that you didn't feel there was improvement from completely unprogrammed to programmed, and that you even found positives to the sound when it was unprogrammed. My EQ had to be all over the place just to have it be passable. Now I run with my EQ completely flat. Is it perfect for each song? No, but it doesn't sound bad on any song either. Unprogrammed also had no real sound stage, and programmed had much more separation, sort of the opposite of your experience.

There isn't much to tweak with this upgrade, considering it's designed to be so plug and play, but if you were to decode a programming file or use the helix software that some of their other DSPs use to tweak more actively that would be a huge step forward. This is a much more hermetically sealed stereo setup compared to DSPs that are universal and open for tweaking.

 

[2013R]

If you're that sensitive where you want to/need to adjust more than the volume song to song, you have some mighty golden ears!

I'm surprised that you didn't feel there was improvement from completely unprogrammed to programmed, and that you even found positives to the sound when it was unprogrammed. My EQ had to be all over the place just to have it be passable. Now I run with my EQ completely flat. Is it perfect for each song? No, but it doesn't sound bad on any song either. Unprogrammed also had no real sound stage, and programmed had much more separation, sort of the opposite of your experience.

There isn't much to tweak with this upgrade, considering it's designed to be so plug and play, but if you were to decode a programming file or use the helix software that some of their other DSPs use to tweak more actively that would be a huge step forward. This is a much more hermetically sealed stereo setup compared to DSPs that are universal and open for tweaking.

I do have golden ears. always have. I was deep into higher end amps like McIntosh, TRU Tech. and Sinfoni for quite a while. Had mostly Focal and Dynaudio component sets, etc. Though I always loved the simple JL Audio 10W3's for a lot of my sub setups, even more than my Image Dynamics 12" sub. I was very into tweaking my sound.

I guess I get the point that this system was made for exactly the opposite of fine tweaking. I would be fine w all that if I hadn't heard the un-programmed version first. I loved it, and after "57" i don't love it anymore. Gives me more of a headache now. Before programming my EQ was perfect at +2 bass, -1 mid, and -1 tweet. After programming, I can't even get the EQ where i like it. I can't believe there is no secret button or switch which can wipe the the programmed settings. I wish the SD card had a 00 to set when choosing a number, which would mean base settings.. But of course opening the amp up to look for a reset switch would void everything..

 

[flipflp]

Really not sure how unprogrammed sounded so good to you! I remember it being a muddy, scattered mess. Weak bass, too much midrange, no sound stage what so ever. I might not have golden ears, but I did do some recording/engineering so I have a concept of what sounds good and what sounds bad.

The way the Helix dongle works, at least as far as what we know about, is that it loads a file and that's it. It can't remove a file, reset the DSP, etc. Highly doubt there would be a switch inside the unit for that, to clear the coding, but there may be. Maybe leaving the helix unplugged, or grounded only could drain any power from the unit that would retain programming. Depends on the circuitry though, flash memory is very resilient.

If you have access to a dongle, you should really try swapping programming until you find something more to your liking. Even if the code doesn't seem to match your car model, that's the only way you're going to get much tweaking out of it.

I know people have looked into the files Hex codes in the past, but without porting that coding to a helix software to view/modify properly it doesn't mean much.

 

[2013R]

Maybe leaving the helix unplugged, or grounded only could drain any power from the unit that would retain programming. Depends on the circuitry though, flash memory is very resilient.

If you have access to a dongle, you should really try swapping programming until you find something more to your liking. Even if the code doesn't seem to match your car model, that's the only way you're going to get much tweaking out of it.

ya.. i don't think unplugging it would change any programs.. i might buy my own dongle, but someone on Vortex already tested every program and determined none were better to his ears than 57 for this car..

only thing i could do for sure, is to buy another kit.. swap just the amps.. and then sell my current kit.

 

[2013R]

maybe i'm just tripping... maybe my issue is it's too loud.. too much power for such a small cabin. I also prefer super high clarity SQL over max SPL. i just had a 30 min session in car on my lunch break, listening to my SD card and Rush - Permanent Waves. I also cannot go past 50% volume, and 30% is more pleasing to be honest. I wonder if I should tweak that gain a little. I have never had an amp in all my 100+ which was meant to have the gain maxed.. quite the opposite, 80% of my gains were at 1/3 or less. I haven't even checked this amps gains, as I will have to unscrew it to do that. But if this amp is being overdriven with the gain maxed, that will create un-neccessary distortion that wouldn't be there if the gain was lowered. (while possibly still providing same volume levels). What I also find strange is that the gain only controls the sub channel. I also have never had an amp where the gain didn't control the whole package. (or else it would have had dual gains.) I might prefer the "97" lower volume setup, but then i read its for MIB1, and I have MIB2..

 

[2013R]

I changed my gain. Pics attached. It was maxed. I put it exactly half way for now. In other words, the red dot on my dial now faces directly up. Hopefully I don't lose tons of volume.

 

[quailallstar]

I found a video online from Volkswagen and it states that the HELIX is meant to be run with the EQ settings flat. This may explain why the sound seems worse after programming, especially if your EQ settings are all out of whack.

Side note: Does anyone with a newer MK7.5 know if the rear door tweeters are pre-wired? I am still disappointed VW decided to save pennies and no longer include them within the rear doors. Plan to pick up a used set off a wrecked car so long as I don't have to run wires to the head unit.

 

[2013R]

I found a video online from Volkswagen and it states that the HELIX is meant to be run with the EQ settings flat. This may explain why the sound seems worse after programming, especially if your EQ settings are all out of whack.

RESPONSE to above: I would guess that is how they designed it, sure. The "perfect" sound ready to go with no adjustments. Unfortunately, everyones ears are different and that statement is a long way off for most people..

RESULTS from my gain adjustment: A dud. As everyone said, the gain only touches the sub. I still had the same terrible shrill harshness at 30-40% volume, and 50% volume was painful. I just had to confirm for myself to settle my OCD. The gain only half is terrible, because even with my bass still at +2, now I couldn't hear the sub at all at 30-40% volume, so it was effectively useless. I will be going back to full gain tonight I guess.

FUTURE thoughts: I doubt I'm the first one to think about it, but maybe replacing the door speakers with Fender units. The #1 issue here would be to make sure they are the exact same ohms as the ones which come out. Then you would get a speaker capable of handling a bit more power while matching the DSP settings perfectly. On the other hand, the sole reason that volume could be maxed so early is the amp is better suited to 4 ohm speakers, and most likely, these stock speakers are all 2 ohm. 4 ohm would bring the volume range perfect, but at the same time, it would throw off all your DSP settings, EQs, levels, crossovers, time alignments, and slopes. This will be a year long thought process for me, as I try and improve this system in small ways. I'm not in a huge rush.

NEEDS from the community: If anyone has a stock door speaker or stock front tweeter out of car, please throw an ohm meter on the terminals and get me an exact reading. (Powered off, dead of course.) If the speaker is a 2 ohm speaker, it will show 1.6-1.7 ohms resistance on the meter. If it is a 4 ohm speaker it will show 3.4 ohms on the meter. I would love to throw some Focals in those spots, but the ohms would have to be just right.