Helix Sound upgrade dongle official rental thread!

[Chillout]

Seller iqjump123. I'm not sure if they have anymore. I only bought because I'm curious to take it apart and see how it works (I started on it last night). Renting the dongle in this thread makes more financial sense if you only want to program your helix once and then move on.

I'm curious about the teardown of the device. Please keep us up to date on that. I might be able to reproduce it with an arduino (or pc.. i guess it's REALLY basic stuff going on here) so we don't need to buy the dongle or rent it here.

 

[beardedGTI]

The programmer itself is blindingly simple. Inside that box is an atmega324p and an 8 pin header which I assume is JTAG/serial programmer for the microcontroller. Nothing else. My original plan was to probe it with JTAG but after consideration I'm old and don't feel like looking at machine code. So I think the point of attack will be to probe the output if I can figure out what frequency it uses. The plug that goes to the unit is a standard RJ-45 and since I know that also carries power in it, there's only a max of 6 address lines going through that cable. Exploring the SD card it just holds a bunch of unicode plain text files with hex offsets that likely describe parameter values. Each file is for a different vehicle with a numerical file extension which is what you see on the led display as you rotate the knob. I think it's likely I can a.) figure out the communication protocol so we can build a programmer out of a raspberry pi or arduino b.) figure out the hex offsets in the file so modifications could be made to the program.

I havn't had a chance to open the A/B switch yet to see what's in there. It's possible it may not even be a microcontroller but rather a jumper for one set of pins in the RJ-45. Will investigate more later.

 

[ahmedkmj]

UK/EU Dongle

Is there anyone renting in UK/EU

Dealers here have no idea about this part and I can see all of you guys based in US/Canada I don't want to spent £150 for 5 second job.

Anyone interested ?

 

[Chillout]

The programmer itself is blindingly simple. Inside that box is an atmega324p and an 8 pin header which I assume is JTAG/serial programmer for the microcontroller. Nothing else. My original plan was to probe it with JTAG but after consideration I'm old and don't feel like looking at machine code. So I think the point of attack will be to probe the output if I can figure out what frequency it uses. The plug that goes to the unit is a standard RJ-45 and since I know that also carries power in it, there's only a max of 6 address lines going through that cable. Exploring the SD card it just holds a bunch of unicode plain text files with hex offsets that likely describe parameter values. Each file is for a different vehicle with a numerical file extension which is what you see on the led display as you rotate the knob. I think it's likely I can a.) figure out the communication protocol so we can build a programmer out of a raspberry pi or arduino b.) figure out the hex offsets in the file so modifications could be made to the program.

I havn't had a chance to open the A/B switch yet to see what's in there. It's possible it may not even be a microcontroller but rather a jumper for one set of pins in the RJ-45. Will investigate more later.

Haha that's very very simple! Currently on a holiday, but this sounds like it's an easy reverse engineering thing.

 

[biffstertim]

VW Helix Soundbox programming

The programmer itself is blindingly simple. Inside that box is an atmega324p and an 8 pin header which I assume is JTAG/serial programmer for the microcontroller. Nothing else. My original plan was to probe it with JTAG but after consideration I'm old and don't feel like looking at machine code. S....

Nice topic re the Helix programmer and DSP amp, and it's even simpler than you think.

The Helix amp has an Analog Devices ADAU1701 DSP chip and an eeprom which simply stores the contents of one of the hex files (as I believe you've seen) associated with the programmer ID number (eg, 57 for 4-door MK7 Golf, etc).

The programmer uses a serial bus connection via a couple of pins on the programming dongle. The 1701 has a Self-Boot mode which will on power up read the contents of the hex file on the prom. That's it.

Thus, the programmer really is just a SD card reader and serial interface that can pull a file based on the number provided in the file extension, and write it to the prom.

The dongle, then, can easily be replaced by a cheap USB serial interface. A terminal program I'd imagine on a laptop or a write from a Raspberry Pi, etc., could write to it no problem. I've got a $10 USB interface that should work, but I've had zero time this year to pull the amp and program it this way.

Now, the hex files themselves are standard output from AD SigmaStudio, and you can even write new versions of the file to the prom. Trick is, there exists no decompiler or other means to figure out the opcodes and parameters in the hex files such that you could easily write a custom program.

Additionally, no other Helix product in the PDP line they sell apparently uses this 1701 chip. It's not like you can take one of the files in Helix's own software for the PDP line and write it to the Helix VW dsp.

That said, there are some painful ways to figure out the dsp hex file parameters. That would take a big group effort, however, to decipher and tweak them for our own tastes, cars, etc. But I found a blurry screenshot of a relevant SigmaStudio file from a Helix OEM that will get you a lot closer.

There used to be (up until only recently) a German firm that sold a system very similar to the VW Soundbox with what appeared to be the identical board as sourced by Helix. Maybe they had some OEM relationship. It was at FYCS.de

Now, FYCS.de apparently did their own tuning and optimization for various cars popular in Germany, including the MK5 Golf. While I couldn't find a download of their hex files, they did have a screenshot for what appears to be a version of their SigmaStudio design layout for the EQ. It sure looks complete for a basic EQ that should work with the Soundbox, but I've not had an opportunity to recreate the design in SigmaStudio.

I've attached that screenshot so you can see it. Pretty basic, but you would of course need to separately take measurements inside of your own vehicle to begin to understand what EQ parameters, etc., you would need to use for your own case.

Oh, the A/B switch as you can imagine is simply bringing one pin low or high to bypass the EQ via a pin to the 1701. Nothing special.

 

[Chillout]

Nice topic re the Helix programmer and DSP amp, and it's even simpler than you think.

The Helix amp has an Analog Devices ADAU1701 DSP chip and an eeprom which simply stores the contents of one of the hex files (as I believe you've seen) associated with the programmer ID number (eg, 57 for 4-door MK7 Golf, etc).

The programmer uses a serial bus connection via a couple of pins on the programming dongle. The 1701 has a Self-Boot mode which will on power up read the contents of the hex file on the prom. That's it.

Thus, the programmer really is just a SD card reader and serial interface that can pull a file based on the number provided in the file extension, and write it to the prom.

The dongle, then, can easily be replaced by a cheap USB serial interface. A terminal program I'd imagine on a laptop or a write from a Raspberry Pi, etc., could write to it no problem. I've got a $10 USB interface that should work, but I've had zero time this year to pull the amp and program it this way.

Now, the hex files themselves are standard output from AD SigmaStudio, and you can even write new versions of the file to the prom. Trick is, there exists no decompiler or other means to figure out the opcodes and parameters in the hex files such that you could easily write a custom program.

Additionally, no other Helix product in the PDP line they sell apparently uses this 1701 chip. It's not like you can take one of the files in Helix's own software for the PDP line and write it to the Helix VW dsp.

That said, there are some painful ways to figure out the dsp hex file parameters. That would take a big group effort, however, to decipher and tweak them for our own tastes, cars, etc. But I found a blurry screenshot of a relevant SigmaStudio file from a Helix OEM that will get you a lot closer.

There used to be (up until only recently) a German firm that sold a system very similar to the VW Soundbox with what appeared to be the identical board as sourced by Helix. Maybe they had some OEM relationship. It was at FYCS.de

Now, FYCS.de apparently did their own tuning and optimization for various cars popular in Germany, including the MK5 Golf. While I couldn't find a download of their hex files, they did have a screenshot for what appears to be a version of their SigmaStudio design layout for the EQ. It sure looks complete for a basic EQ that should work with the Soundbox, but I've not had an opportunity to recreate the design in SigmaStudio.

I've attached that screenshot so you can see it. Pretty basic, but you would of course need to separately take measurements inside of your own vehicle to begin to understand what EQ parameters, etc., you would need to use for your own case.


Oh, the A/B switch as you can imagine is simply bringing one pin low or high to bypass the EQ via a pin to the 1701. Nothing special.

That's very simple and very good info thanks!!... so then it's a case of finding the correct pinout for the rj45 connector, hook it up to a simple usb serial interface, connect and push the file over the interface.
I wonder if there is any dialog before the file is sent.



And about the hex files... I can have a look at them when I'm back from my holiday. It's probably a file with a bitmap with offsets that point to the location of specific parameters for each speaker and setting. We could compare it to the car specific sound tuning files that are already in the Discover Pro (I took them from mib1). These should contain the same speakers and distance values, without the subwoofer and dsp specific stuff.

 

[biffstertim]

And about the hex files... I can have a look at them when I'm back from my holiday. It's probably a file with a bitmap with offsets that point to the location of specific parameters for each speaker and setting. We could compare it to the car specific sound tuning files that are already in the Discover Pro (I took them from mib1). These should contain the same speakers and distance values, without the subwoofer and dsp specific stuff.

I wish it were that simple, but I think you'll quickly find that there's no trivial way to decipher the 1701's codes simply from looking over the hex contents.

If you Google this or search on AD's forums, you'll see that there are no publicly available 1701 decompilers. AD wants to make sure that designers protect their own IP best as possible, and my understanding is that nobody outside of a select group of AD folks and perhaps other firms writing software for the 1701 have any means to quickly reverse engineer a hex file.

There are a ton of things you also have to know about the system before you can start tweaking EQ of a dsp. You need to know the speaker parameters so you can create meaningful low and high pass filters, etc.

You then need to know what kind of EQ you want to do on the system. The ones on the screenshot I shared aren't that crazy (and it may not even be a production file -- just someone playing around), but it on first glance appears to be a serviceable EQ that would work with the VW Helix system plus a sub. It even references a sub called the "bass wheel" which is a sub that looked close to the Soundbox's , but it seemed to be some other FYCS design. So even that is not identical to the VW system.

First thing first. If I ever get time I will see if I can read and write to the prom using a serial programmer, based on the 1701 datasheet's Self Boot sections. That should at least prove that concept.

I'd ideally love a mild amount of tweaking for my own system, which is based on Focal rather than stock drivers in the doors. It's a bit bright to my ears and not ideal with the stock programming, although it is pretty great as is. Thanks!

 

[copperbricks]

Hey does anyone know the specs on the sub included with the Helix upgrade? I don't want to sacrifice my spare tire, so I'm either going to use the amp in the Helix DSP to power a different sub, or feed into something like an LC2i and use a traditional amp/sub setup.

 

[MiamiBourne]

Hey does anyone know the specs on the sub included with the Helix upgrade? I don't want to sacrifice my spare tire, so I'm either going to use the amp in the Helix DSP to power a different sub, or feed into something like an LC2i and use a traditional amp/sub setup.

I've actually thought of doing the same...I mean this Helix sound upgrade seem like a bargain but I don't want to lose my spare.

I know it's been mentioned that it's one of these Match amps

http://www.audiotec-fischer.de/lng/en/pp-62dsp.html

 

[wy2sl0]

For set it and forget it, there is no better option. I like it loud though, so I might go fully active next year.

 

[copperbricks]

I actually went ahead and ordered a Helix subwoofer. 150w, dual driver like this one, but a proper box instead of a wheel replacement. It's called a PP7E. As far as I can tell it's got the same connector as the round sub so fingers crossed. I'll update everyone when everything shows up!

 

[PureDope]

I have the dongle and am done with it if anybody is in need.

 

[TurboMakesItBetter]

I have the dongle and am done with it if anybody is in need.

I reached out to get on the list, but I think kevin808 was needing it first. I just picked up the Helix, so I still have to get it installed first before I'll need the dongle.

I'm tagging Kevin so he gets a notification on this message

 

[Quebster]

I actually went ahead and ordered a Helix subwoofer. 150w, dual driver like this one, but a proper box instead of a wheel replacement. It's called a PP7E. As far as I can tell it's got the same connector as the round sub so fingers crossed. I'll update everyone when everything shows up!

Does this drive more power to the door speakers as well, like the soundbox does?

Also, anyone actually know how many watts per channel the Helix soundbox puts out, and do you know how many the stock non-Fender headunit puts out for comparison? I'm about to install some Soumatrix Xtase speakers, and plan to throw in the soundbox in the future, want to make sure it will still be good with the Xtase speakers.

I'd also like to know if I could just buy the amp to drive more and cleaner power to the door speakers and use my traditional subwoofer setup, that I already have installed, instead of using the entire soundbox and replacing the spare tire with dual 6" subs that I'm pretty sure aren't going to cut it for me...

 

[elpeladodelsamba]

Hello i have a mk7 gti 2016 mib2 and installed the helix sub! Sounds like crap! Twiters overspund and middles also and bass is low ! Where the dongle cable connects mine brought a plug with a cable . Experienced sound with the plug and without and its the same . Does the dongle programmer feels night and day ? Should i get it to see if its a programation thing? I am in south america so dealers here dont know nothibg about this things . Thanks