Has anyone traded in a tuned Golf R?

[Fastlax16]

I dunno that the dealer really cares what you've done to your car. When I traded in my mk6 gti they made me sign something stating that I still had a cat converter. The sales manager literally said, if you did remove it I don't want to know about it. I signed it despite knowing there was no cat and the dealer knew my car was modified and that there was a highly likely chance it was gone. There wasn't even anything they did to verify it had a cat before I left.

Hell, I even signed over the mk6 to them and bought the new car on a saturday. I drove my mk6 home even though my name wasn't on it anymore and I spent my sunday putting some OEM parts back in. Monday morning I drove the gti back up there, and on the original tires that were at least 8-9 years old. I left my mk6 keys with the salesman and off I went. The mk6 was appraised with mods on it and they didn't even care to get a list of parts that I had planned on swapping back.

I think they just wanted to make the sale on the R bad enough that when it came to stuff like that they were just like yea go ahead do whatever you want. Granted, it was an older car that was definitely not going to be CPO'd. They didn't even attempt to sell it at their dealership, that thing got sent off to an auction I'm sure, so not quite the same scenario.

I tried telling them I replaced the tensioner and chain earlier this year too, it was a 2011 with about 80k miles, and they couldn't give a shit about that either.

If they know they are sending a car to auction, they really couldn't care less about the specifics.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I’d say lie and conceal the fact that you modified the car and thereby knowingly voided any remaining warranty. Especially if doing so ensures a higher grade value, I mean why would you leave money on the table?! Even if they don’t ask, I’m sure you won’t be liable for fraud by omission if you didn’t disclose what you know to have voided an otherwise remaining warranty.

What harm can be done, I mean, people commit fraud all the time.

You're being sarcastic right?

 

[Thumper]

Just be aware, you might be liable in civil court if you fail to disclose the tune or TD1 when trading.

This would depend greatly on local laws, but there is absolutely no link between the original owner and the person who buys it from a dealer. The dealer would be open to be held liable by their customer. Now, the dealer could try to go back against the original owner but unless they asked and/or had them sign a document that it wasn't tuned when it was they would be SOL as well. If I know my wheel bearing is worn out and trade it in and the dealer sells it without finding it and the wheel falls off the new owner can't sue me. That's ridiculous.

Be an adult, take responsibility and be ethical.

Ultimately this is the best advice.

 

[Acadia18]

Don't lie if you're asked, but don't voluntary disclose the information either.

 

[XM_Rocks]

This would depend greatly on local laws, but there is absolutely no link between the original owner and the person who buys it from a dealer. The dealer would be open to be held liable by their customer. Now, the dealer could try to go back against the original owner but unless they asked and/or had them sign a document that it wasn't tuned when it was they would be SOL as well. If I know my wheel bearing is worn out and trade it in and the dealer sells it without finding it and the wheel falls off the new owner can't sue me. That's ridiculous.

A wheel coming off and a tune are two different things.

A tune can be found and reserched, linking it to a party via subpoena.

The dealer could be sued and the dealer can in turn sue the person that traded in the car, if it wasn't disclosed.

The reality is both parties wouldn’t sue because the cost of litigation and the risk of losing or an unenforceable judgement would keep anyone from going down that road.

I still stand by my statement. Don’t be a douche, be ethical.

I’ve never not disclosed modifications or needed repairs when selling.

If you can’t afford the cost of being ethical, you probably shouldn’t be buying a $40k car and modding it.

 

[AxMan]

In both my instances, I have was upfront. It was obvious that I did some work to the R I traded in, and the Porsche dealer I got my Cayman from is very tuner friendly, so I did it anyway. I do agree that it’s not worth the risk to lie about it.

 

[JC_451]

Behaving ethically and behaving lawfully are not the same thing. While it's admirable to display a strong sense of ethics it is not always in your advantage to act this way, especially if you're not breaking the law.

Being ethical is most important when you have a long term relationship with a person or a business. If you have no plans on a future relationship and if they don't specifically ask, you are under no obligation to tell.

Don't lie, but I know many people who are "honest to a fault."

Especially when it comes to large corporations, behaving ethically with entities known to be unethical is the perfect way to be taken advantage of. Plus, behaving ethically is ultimately much more frustrating than it is satisfying ?

 

[jimlloyd40]

Behaving ethically and behaving lawfully are not the same thing. While it's admirable to display a strong sense of ethics it is not always in your advantage to act this way, especially if you're not breaking the law.

Being ethical is most important when you have a long term relationship with a person or a business. If you have no plans on a future relationship and if they don't specifically ask, you are under no obligation to tell.

Don't lie, but I know many people who are "honest to a fault."

Especially when it comes to large corporations, behaving ethically with entities known to be unethical is the perfect way to be taken advantage of. Plus, behaving ethically is ultimately much more frustrating than it is satisfying ?

If you trade in a car that is tuned or has been tuned and don't tell them and they sell the car to someone who then experiences a powertrain related failure and gets denied warranty work you have committed fraud.

 

[Thumper]

A wheel coming off and a tune are two different things.

Agreed, they are totally different. A wheel falling off is a safety issue, a tune is not. All a tune does is void a powertrain warranty, which falls under the dealers problem. No one is going to get anywhere trying to go back against a previous owner for a drivetrain failure due to a tune that was undisclosed. The issue will start and stop with the dealer that sold it.

And again, I agree with your statement, not only to be polite to the next owner but to protect your relationship with your dealer. They are ultimately the ones that will take the hit if an issue arises with whoever buys the car. Either they have to eat the costs because they CPO'd it, or they have to tell their other customer to suck it and take the black eye in service and lose that customer and many others from word of mouth. And next time you want to do business with them they will certainly remember.

If you trade in a car that is tuned or has been tuned and don't tell them and they sell the car to someone who then experiences a powertrain related failure and gets denied warranty work you have committed fraud.

No you haven't. God grief....LOL

Unless you sign a document specifically asking about a tune you have not made any material misrepresentation. Fraud requires you to make a material misrepresentation, a specific statement or assurance that is incorrect. You might as well say if I don't fully research and confirm all TSBs and recalls on my car before turning it in and the dealer misses one that it's my liability. It's a ridiculous statement. Do the right thing not because it's boo, scary illegal but because it's the right thing to do.

 

[Fastlax16]

A wheel coming off and a tune are two different things.

A tune can be found and reserched, linking it to a party via subpoena.

The dealer could be sued and the dealer can in turn sue the person that traded in the car, if it wasn't disclosed.

The reality is both parties wouldn’t sue because the cost of litigation and the risk of losing or an unenforceable judgement would keep anyone from going down that road.

I still stand by my statement. Don’t be a douche, be ethical.

I’ve never not disclosed modifications or needed repairs when selling.

If you can’t afford the cost of being ethical, you probably shouldn’t be buying a $40k car and modding it.

Going to go out on a limb here, you aren't a lawyer.

 

[Fastlax16]

If you trade in a car that is tuned or has been tuned and don't tell them and they sell the car to someone who then experiences a powertrain related failure and gets denied warranty work you have committed fraud.

and neither are you.

 

[Corprin]

No you haven't. God grief....LOL

Unless you sign a document specifically asking about a tune you have not made any material misrepresentation. Fraud requires you to make a material misrepresentation, a specific statement or assurance that is incorrect. You might as well say if I don't fully research and confirm all TSBs and recalls on my car before turning it in and the dealer misses one that it's my liability. It's a ridiculous statement. Do the right thing not because it's boo, scary illegal but because it's the right thing to do.

See: Fraud by Omission.

Going to go out on a limb here, you aren't a lawyer.

One valid point he made was the tune can be tracked by subpoena. I know, on very good authority, that violations of the Clean Air Act (a tune counts) can and are chased down by the EPA. There is some ugly shit going down in the bro-dozer / coal rolling dipshit realm right now.

 

[Fastlax16]

See: Fraud by Omission.



One valid point he made was the tune can be tracked by subpoena. I know, on very good authority, that violations of the Clean Air Act (a tune counts) can and are chased down by the EPA. There is some ugly shit going down in the bro-dozer / coal rolling dipshit realm right now.

a few points.

If you trade in to a vw dealer that is capable of scanning the car and verifying a tune fraud by omission isn’t going to happen. It’d be like claiming fraud by omission for leaving a cold air intake on a car. You (purchaser) can see it’s modified with minimal effort.

used car sales are almost always as-is, unless you ask for guarantees in writing. Don’t want to get screwed, pay a shop to do a pre-purchase inspection. The onus is on the buyer not the seller.

This thread has jumped the shark if we are talking about issuing subpoenas to verify a car was tuned. VW can verify it all on their own no subpoena necessary.

 

[Corprin]

a few points.

If you trade in to a vw dealer that is capable of scanning the car and verifying a tune fraud by omission isn’t going to happen. It’d be like claiming fraud by omission for leaving a cold air intake on a car. You (purchaser) can see it’s modified with minimal effort.

used car sales are almost always as-is, unless you ask for guarantees in writing. Don’t want to get screwed, pay a shop to do a pre-purchase inspection. The onus is on the buyer not the seller.

This thread has jumped the shark if we are talking about issuing subpoenas to verify a car was tuned. VW can verify it all on their own no subpoena necessary.

As-is is a great point, and I agree to an extent. But, when you bring residual transferable warranty into play, which the OP is doing, things change; reread the original post.

The OP is deliberately returning to stock, a modification that had knowingly voided/will void the residual warranty, to facilitate making more money in the trade in.

He is knowingly omitting otherwise pertinent and impactful information in order to facilitate financial gain. As such, he clearly meets the definition of fraud by omission.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Agreed, they are totally different. A wheel falling off is a safety issue, a tune is not. All a tune does is void a powertrain warranty, which falls under the dealers problem. No one is going to get anywhere trying to go back against a previous owner for a drivetrain failure due to a tune that was undisclosed. The issue will start and stop with the dealer that sold it.

And again, I agree with your statement, not only to be polite to the next owner but to protect your relationship with your dealer. They are ultimately the ones that will take the hit if an issue arises with whoever buys the car. Either they have to eat the costs because they CPO'd it, or they have to tell their other customer to suck it and take the black eye in service and lose that customer and many others from word of mouth. And next time you want to do business with them they will certainly remember.



No you haven't. God grief....LOL

Unless you sign a document specifically asking about a tune you have not made any material misrepresentation. Fraud requires you to make a material misrepresentation, a specific statement or assurance that is incorrect. You might as well say if I don't fully research and confirm all TSBs and recalls on my car before turning it in and the dealer misses one that it's my liability. It's a ridiculous statement. Do the right thing not because it's boo, scary illegal but because it's the right thing to do.

No I haven't.