Hagerty’s HPDE/Track Day Insurance...do you buy policies or not?

[Waltari]

I was just curious for those of you that do time trials or HPDE...do you ever purchase a policy for the day or season through Hagerty? Ever had to file a claim? I've been getting policies for peace of mind since starting doing HPDE 5 years ago, but am wondering if there are enough loopholes in the language of their polices that would give them easy outs to not pay on a claim and maybe just shouldn't bother. I've never had to file (knock on wood) a claim, but wondering if anyone has and if so what was your experience?

The policy they provide for SCCA track days doesn't mention HPDE anywhere, but they define their coverage to an event as a:

2. “Driver Education Event” means a safe driving program that includes classroom education, technical inspection, and
on-track exercises. The event’s primary purpose is to improve the “covered driver’s” driving skills in a safe learning
environment and under controlled conditions. A “driver education event” does not include “non-competitive time trials”
or “competitive time trials” unless endorsed.

If you're doing time trials...looks like no coverage and frankly it looks like any issue caused during a track day could be excluded based on one of the definitions below

PERILS EXCLUDED

b. Mechanical Breakdown – We do not pay for “loss” caused by any mechanical, structural, or electrical breakdown
or malfunction including a breakdown or malfunction resulting from a structural, mechanical, or reconditioning
process.
c. Pollutants – We do not pay for “loss” caused by or resulting from release, discharge, seepage, migration,
dispersal, or escape of “pollutants”:
1) unless the release, discharge, seepage, migration, dispersal, or escape is caused by a “specified peril”; or
2) except as specifically provided under the Supplemental Coverage – Pollutant Cleanup and Removal.
We do cover any resulting “loss” caused by a “specified peril”.
d. Temperature/Humidity – We do not pay for any “loss” caused by dryness, dampness, humidity, or changes in or
extremes of temperature.
But if dryness, dampness, humidity, or changes in or extremes of temperature results in a “specified peril”, we do
cover the loss or damage caused by the “specified peril”.
e. Wear and Tear – We do not pay for “loss” caused by wear and tear, marring, or scratching.

3. “Non-Competitive Time Trial” – Any property, including your “scheduled automobile” while engaged in a “non-
competitive time trial”.

4. “Competitive Time Trial” – Any property, including your “scheduled automobile” while engaged in a “competitive time
trial”.
5. “Racing” – Any property, including your “scheduled automobile” while engaged in “racing”.

Times trial defined by them as:
10. “Non-Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the lap times of “scheduled automobile” are
recorded for the personal use of the “covered driver”, but not for any competitive purposes.
11. “Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the “covered driver” is competing against other
participants, either on the track simultaneously or via timed runs, where placement or time is used to determine prizes
of any sort or value, or where placement or time is used to accumulate points, standings, or rankings of any sort at the
event or in an ongoing competition or series.

Seems a bit misleading on SCCAs part to promote these policies on some of their websites. The verbiage on the TNiA page here: https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/pages/track-insurance-2 doesn't seem to match the legal ease of the issued policies. So has anyone ever tried to file a claim?

 

[MonkeyMD]

No experience with them, but language is pretty clear. Time trials and competitive racing of any kind is not covered.

I use Open Track & it's the same thing

 

[Waltari]

What great is SCCA has for the last couple years combine track days and time trial events then encouraged participants to register/participate in both. In their definition of
10. “Non-Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the lap times of “scheduled automobile” are
recorded for the personal use of the “covered driver”, but not for any competitive purposes.

I'm even wondering if using an app like Track Addict or a Garmin Catalyst to track lap times could expose one to potential rejection of a claim.

 

[scrllock]

All you gotta do is select that coverage if you're doing time trials/time attack... Using a lap timer for HPDE is not time trials. And if you have a claim, regardless of what you're doing, don't be an idiot and post video on social media. Lockton or Open Track are very similar. Nothing complicated here.

Open track also offers separate liability coverage, which is good if you run somewhere with expensive barriers.

 

[MonkeyMD]

View attachment 290100

All you gotta do is select that coverage if you're doing time trials/time attack... Using a lap timer for HPDE is not time trials. And if you have a claim, regardless of what you're doing, don't be an idiot and post video on social media. Lockton or Open Track are very similar. Nothing complicated here.

Open track also offers separate liability coverage, which is good if you run somewhere with expensive barriers.

That's why I use them for COTA.

Last guy that messed up a barrier got a $10k bill

 

[paNX2K&SE-R]

An acquaintance of mine rolled his '19 ND 30AE at CMP a couple years ago and Hagerty paid out his claim minus the deductible without any issues. I buy the coverage when I track my own '19 ND. I hope to never have to actually use it lol.

 

[Waltari]

I know

That's why I use them for COTA.

Last guy that messed up a barrier got a $10k bill

At my home track (PIR), they will not let you register for another event until that bill for the damaged barrier is paid in full.

 

[Redslaya]

Myself and @DerHase use Lockton for HPDE/TT coverage. Ive found them to sometimes be cheaper than hagerty, especially as the value of your vehicle goes up. I will not go out on track without it.

lockton automatically covers you, a second driver, and an instructor driving the vehicle.

 

[tigeo]

I use Lockton every time I do an HPDE. Exception on cost was SCCA Track Night in America...Hagerty has a discount for that specific even and it was a bit cheaper. I own my car and it's dropping in value but still, getting ~$20K check for it if I (or someone else) screws up will help replace it. The other issue is damage to track and environmental spills....these policies cover it plus up to a grand to tow you home. Lockton sells a rider for TTs.

@DerHase has made a claim - not sure whether Hagerty or Lockton so he will chime in and impart wisdom here.

That non-competitive TT thing is a bit concerning...hahahah...I mean, who doesn't record their lap times?

 

[DerHase]

Yeah. I use Lockton and actually had to make a claim in the past.

The car was insured for $15k. It was way off what the car could actually likely be sold for according to KBB (about $4k-5k). So because of this, they required receipts of all the costs of the stuff being claimed. It's a *stated value* policy (not agreed to, there is a difference). You can't just claim $80k for something you only have $40k in receipts for. That would probably entail jail time for insurance fraud if you pushed it.

Essentially I called up the broker who the Lockton policy was purchased through, at which point they asked if I had anywhere in mind to get an inspection/estimate done, I did so I towed it to the body shop. I had a trailer so I declined them covering the tow but that isn't something you'd need to worry about. They wanted it looked at FAST.

After the body shop did their estimate, the insurance adjuster came out either the next day or day after that. It was a $15k estimate to fix the car to it's original condition, so was deemed a total loss.

I was then told due to the valuation difference vs policy I'd need to procure all the receipts from the car. I did originally pay something like $11-12k for the vehicle back when it was nearly new, plus I had another ~$5k in suspension stuff.

They do NOT cover tires or brake pads as part of the costs.

You CANNOT remove anything from the car, whether it's claimed on the receipts or not.

I was offered my choice of a $13,500 check ($15k policy - 10% deductible), or "buying back" the car [at $1100 "value"] + $12,400 check. It was under 2 weeks from the time of the accident to check in hand/car back in my driveway. Again, I had a trailer so I towed it myself, but I imagine if you buy it back you'll be on the hook for transporting it from the body shop.

I purchased the car back, stripped all the worthwhile parts off of it to sell, and then turned around and sold the rolling shell to a B Spec builder in Texas.

It worked out for me well, but I hope to never need to use it again. I had a concussion for a solid week, the RH side of my head felt heavy and my balance was off for nearly 2 months.

I buy a $35k policy for my GTI every time it goes on track, which has been 15 days in the last ~18mo or so. I have a bit more into it, but I keep an itemized list of receipts up to at least that value (I've admittedly gotten lazier about keeping it up to date) so that IF I ever need to make a claim again, I won't need to go back through years and years of emails/receipts/calling and emailing companies to send me copies of my old invoices, etc.

FWIW Lockton rates vary based on the event and event organizer. I typically pay ~$228/weekend (doesn't matter if 1/2/3 day event, it's a minimum price) when running with most clubs, but the TNiA event I did it was only $150 IIRC. I have a bank account on file, so that saves you $20 over using a CC or debit card every time FWIW.

For a long time I used to purchase on the morning of the event, but they changed their policy recently this year - you must purchase the day prior to the event. My guess is there were several people trying to lie about time of accident vs coverage purchase timestamp.

edit: And this was at a Gridlife event running Sundae Cup (Time Trial). Obviously I checked the box for time trial coverage. If you have to make a claim, you will need an accident report from the event organizers as well. That was a simple email away for me, but you'll want to get one before you leave the track if possible.

 

[Waltari]

Yeah. I use Lockton and actually had to make a claim in the past.

View attachment 290174 View attachment 290175 View attachment 290176


The car was insured for $15k. It was way off what the car could actually likely be sold for according to KBB (about $4k-5k). So because of this, they required receipts of all the costs of the stuff being claimed. It's a *stated value* policy (not agreed to, there is a difference). You can't just claim $80k for something you only have $40k in receipts for. That would probably entail jail time for insurance fraud if you pushed it.

Essentially I called up the broker who the Lockton policy was purchased through, at which point they asked if I had anywhere in mind to get an inspection/estimate done, I did so I towed it to the body shop. I had a trailer so I declined them covering the tow but that isn't something you'd need to worry about. They wanted it looked at FAST.

After the body shop did their estimate, the insurance adjuster came out either the next day or day after that. It was a $15k estimate to fix the car to it's original condition, so was deemed a total loss.

I was then told due to the valuation difference vs policy I'd need to procure all the receipts from the car. I did originally pay something like $11-12k for the vehicle back when it was nearly new, plus I had another ~$5k in suspension stuff.

They do NOT cover tires or brake pads as part of the costs.

You CANNOT remove anything from the car, whether it's claimed on the receipts or not.

I was offered my choice of a $13,500 check ($15k policy - 10% deductible), or "buying back" the car + $12,400 check. It was under 2 weeks from the time of the accident to check in hand/car back in my driveway. Again, I had a trailer so I towed it myself, but I imagine if you buy it back you'll be on the hook for transporting it from the body shop.

I purchased the car back, stripped all the worthwhile parts off of it to sell, and then turned around and sold the rolling shell to a B Spec builder in Texas.

It worked out for me well, but I hope to never need to use it again. I had a concussion for a solid week, the RH side of my head felt heavy and my balance was off for nearly 2 months.

I buy a $35k policy for my GTI every time it goes on track, which has been 15 days in the last ~18mo or so. I have a bit more into it, but I keep an itemized list of receipts up to at least that value (I've admittedly gotten lazier about keeping it up to date) so that IF I ever need to make a claim again, I won't need to go back through years and years of emails/receipts/calling and emailing companies to send me copies of my old invoices, etc.

FWIW Lockton rates vary based on the event and event organizer. I typically pay ~$228/weekend (doesn't matter if 1/2/3 day event, it's a minimum price) when running with most clubs, but the TNiA event I did it was only $150 IIRC. I have a bank account on file, so that saves you $20 over using a CC or debit card every time FWIW.

For a long time I used to purchase on the morning of the event, but they changed their policy recently this year - you must purchase the day prior to the event. My guess is there were several people trying to lie about time of accident vs coverage purchase timestamp.

edit: And this was at a Gridlife event running Sundae Cup (Time Trial). Obviously I checked the box for time trial coverage. If you have to make a claim, you will need an accident report from the event organizers as well. That was a simple email away for me, but you'll want to get one before you leave the track if possible.

Good call on keeping receipts for all parts/purchases on hand. I'm sure I could go back and gather them up, but better to be proactive and get them into one spot. I'll have to check out Lockton and compare quotes.

 

[DerHase]

Good call on keeping receipts for all parts/purchases on hand. I'm sure I could go back and gather them up, but better to be proactive and get them into one spot. I'll have to check out Lockton and compare quotes.

Yep, whenever I buy something I just throw a PDF of the email or invoice/etc into a folder and eventually add it to a spreadsheet in that same folder. It's broken down by consumables vs non-consumables also just for my own reference.

 

[MonkeyMD]

Evernote. Best thing ever for saving receipts for warranty purposes or whatever. That way I can just search instead of going through a thousand photos

Example

 

[SouthFL_Mk7.5]

Myself and @DerHase use Lockton for HPDE/TT coverage. Ive found them to sometimes be cheaper than hagerty, especially as the value of your vehicle goes up. I will not go out on track without it.

lockton automatically covers you, a second driver, and an instructor driving the vehicle.

I’ve used Lockton as well. Very easy to buy coverage online.

 

[SouthFL_Mk7.5]

Yeah. I use Lockton and actually had to make a claim in the past.

View attachment 290174 View attachment 290175 View attachment 290176


The car was insured for $15k. It was way off what the car could actually likely be sold for according to KBB (about $4k-5k). So because of this, they required receipts of all the costs of the stuff being claimed. It's a *stated value* policy (not agreed to, there is a difference). You can't just claim $80k for something you only have $40k in receipts for. That would probably entail jail time for insurance fraud if you pushed it.

Essentially I called up the broker who the Lockton policy was purchased through, at which point they asked if I had anywhere in mind to get an inspection/estimate done, I did so I towed it to the body shop. I had a trailer so I declined them covering the tow but that isn't something you'd need to worry about. They wanted it looked at FAST.

After the body shop did their estimate, the insurance adjuster came out either the next day or day after that. It was a $15k estimate to fix the car to it's original condition, so was deemed a total loss.

I was then told due to the valuation difference vs policy I'd need to procure all the receipts from the car. I did originally pay something like $11-12k for the vehicle back when it was nearly new, plus I had another ~$5k in suspension stuff.

They do NOT cover tires or brake pads as part of the costs.

You CANNOT remove anything from the car, whether it's claimed on the receipts or not.

I was offered my choice of a $13,500 check ($15k policy - 10% deductible), or "buying back" the car [at $1100 "value"] + $12,400 check. It was under 2 weeks from the time of the accident to check in hand/car back in my driveway. Again, I had a trailer so I towed it myself, but I imagine if you buy it back you'll be on the hook for transporting it from the body shop.

I purchased the car back, stripped all the worthwhile parts off of it to sell, and then turned around and sold the rolling shell to a B Spec builder in Texas.

It worked out for me well, but I hope to never need to use it again. I had a concussion for a solid week, the RH side of my head felt heavy and my balance was off for nearly 2 months.

I buy a $35k policy for my GTI every time it goes on track, which has been 15 days in the last ~18mo or so. I have a bit more into it, but I keep an itemized list of receipts up to at least that value (I've admittedly gotten lazier about keeping it up to date) so that IF I ever need to make a claim again, I won't need to go back through years and years of emails/receipts/calling and emailing companies to send me copies of my old invoices, etc.

FWIW Lockton rates vary based on the event and event organizer. I typically pay ~$228/weekend (doesn't matter if 1/2/3 day event, it's a minimum price) when running with most clubs, but the TNiA event I did it was only $150 IIRC. I have a bank account on file, so that saves you $20 over using a CC or debit card every time FWIW.

For a long time I used to purchase on the morning of the event, but they changed their policy recently this year - you must purchase the day prior to the event. My guess is there were several people trying to lie about time of accident vs coverage purchase timestamp.

edit: And this was at a Gridlife event running Sundae Cup (Time Trial). Obviously I checked the box for time trial coverage. If you have to make a claim, you will need an accident report from the event organizers as well. That was a simple email away for me, but you'll want to get one before you leave the track if possible.

Wow. This answers a lot of things I’ve always wondered about!