GTI with Performance Pack (LSD worth it?)

[wlfpck]

Currently looking at the 2015 GTI and had a couple questions in relationship to the performance pack. Mainly in regards to the LSD. My issue is whether or not I wait for the performance pack.

Does the LSD require more maintenance compared with the normal open differential? (I'm referring to more of years down the road not within 5 years.)

How much difference will the LSD make especially since the new GTI has the new XDS+ system?

Is it possible to later on install the LSD on a GTI with an open differential?

How much would a LSD help in snow/ice versus a GTI with an open differential?

Any help would be great as I really need to make a decision to either wait or go for the new gti.


Thanks!

 

[Avanti]

Having it fitted later may well be much more expensive than from the factory, I have PP, the car certainly corenrs better than my previous MK5, but that could be to do with the chassis rather than PP, car mag reviews show there is not much in it other than for enthusiatic driving (on a track of course).

 

[sezmo]

I have the standard GTI without PP and I am a pretty average driver but I have tracked my car a couple of times and there is definitely a need for the LSD if you are going to track your car. I find the inside wheel spins quite easily on some of the tighter corners limiting my exit speed significantly.

I would also find the bigger brakes useful. I wish I had waited for the PP to be honest given the crazy prices of brake upgrades.

For every day driving though, the GTI is perfect

 

[joema2]

...My issue is whether or not I wait for the performance pack.

Does the LSD require more maintenance compared with the normal open differential? (I'm referring to more of years down the road not within 5 years.)

How much difference will the LSD make especially since the new GTI has the new XDS+ system?

Is it possible to later on install the LSD on a GTI with an open differential?

How much would a LSD help in snow/ice versus a GTI with an open differential?...

I had a Mk6 GTI with APR stage 2, later modified with a WaveTrac LSD. My Mk7 GTI with APR stage 1 doesn't have an LSD.

On the Mk6 you really needed an LSD. If turning from a stop, it would spin up the inside tire even under modest acceleration. The WaveTrac transformed it. I could yank the front end around like an invisible rope was pulling it sideways.

The Mk7's XDS+ is much more advanced than the Mk6. It does not spin up the inside tire as quickly. If you have VCDS (aka VAG-COM) you can program XDS to be more aggressive, but so far I haven't needed this for street driving.

Even for fairly sporty street driving, I don't see most people as pushing the Mk7 GTI hard enough to readily benefit from the Performance Pack's LSD. On the track it would be more beneficial, especially at stage 1 and above power levels.

You can always add a mechanical LSD later, but it is expensive -- probably around $2,000 inc'l parts and labor. That illustrates how the PP is a great deal. You get a much more advanced LSD than anything you can buy, plus upgraded brakes, for less than you could install just an LSD yourself.

Supposedly the PP's VAQ LSD does not require maintenance, but it is a frictional clutch. Depending on usage profile it seems logical it would eventually require service, although hopefully not for a long time.

An LSD helps a little on snow or ice, but it's often not a huge difference. It will prevent one wheel from spinning, but just having winter tires makes a bigger difference than LSD or even all-wheel-drive.

 

[CaptObvious75]

An LSD will help a ton in ice and snow. I have one on my speed3 and no more 1 wheel hoping.

Because of that alone, I will never drive a FWD car without LSD. It makes a big difference.


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[RedHotVAG]

I have a non-PP GTI... Wanted to wait for the PP, but don't regret it because I left behind a real dump of a car.

So based on what you guys know, VW won't be offering the PP to be installed by the dealer and has to be ordered with the car?

 

[joema2]

An LSD will help a ton in ice and snow. I have one on my speed3 and no more 1 wheel hoping.

Because of that alone, I will never drive a FWD car without LSD. It makes a big difference...

I have driven the identical Mk6 GTI on snow and ice both with and without a mechanical LSD. In general it did not make a big difference. Does it make any difference? Yes. You could find scenarios where one wheel would spin on ice and the LSD helped. However over the entire range of driving conditions in various frozen precipitation types, it's not going to transform the car.

This is *especially* considering the vastly improved XDS+ on the Mk7. It is a big step toward true LSD-like capability. You cannot judge the Mk7 based on how other cars behave -- even the Mk6. The Mk7 is totally different.

What *does* make a much bigger difference is dedicated winter tires. Car & Driver did extensive instrumented tests using identical 2WD and AWD vehicles and found winter tires made a much bigger difference than AWD. IN fact they found a 2WD car with open diff using dedicated winter tires was better than an AWD car with regular all-season tires. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-traction-test-what-price-traction

So if anyone is concerned about winter traction, *that* is the area to pursue. Of course if you get the PP GTI with LSD for performance reasons, then add winter tires, it will be better than the non-PP GTI with the same tires.

 

[joema2]

...So based on what you guys know, VW won't be offering the PP to be installed by the dealer and has to be ordered with the car?

The Mk7 PP absolutely cannot be installed by a dealer. It costs $1,500 to have it built on the assembly line. In that case the LSD and brake integration is already engineered, specialized mass-production tooling is used, and labor to install is insignificant -- it's manufactured that way.

Even if you could get the parts and solve the integration issues, it might cost $2,000 in labor alone to install. Unlike an aftermarket LSD, it's not designed for field installation. Your out-of-pocket cost would likely be $3,500, minimum (inc'l upgraded brakes).

The PP is a fantastic deal. If you want that, it must be ordered and built at the factory. However in general the non-PP Mk7 GTI's XDS+ is so improved that the PP's LSD may not be needed as much as on the Mk6.

That is the irony -- VW has delivered the most sophisticated LSD ever on a FWD car at a good price, yet the base car is so improved it's needed less than the previous model. It's great to have the choice.

 

[gx33]

A few comments:

I am coming out of a car with factory LSD (09 Mini Cooper S) and into a car without it ('15 GTI S). I've owned 2 other cars with LSD as well.

I have found that the XDS+ in the non-PP GTI feels about as LSD-like coming out of corners as my real LSD did in the Mini. It's a damn good system. Add to that the fact that the MK7 exhibits no torque steer, and you have a very controllable car. Miles better than the last mk6 I drove. That being said, having a real LSD with the PP will further enhance the sensation of "being pulled through a corner" and no doubt lead to better track times.

I would bet that if there was no PP option on the GTI, and all of these car reviewers were given standard trim GTIs, they would be quite impressed by the XDS+ system alone.

 

[wlfpck]

This is good to hear.

Thanks for the reply everyone. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and trade in my mk6 instead of waiting. Got a price quote of 27.5 out the door. I'm going to attempt to get 26.8 out the door.

Hope I can get 19 or more for my 2013 mk6.

Pretty excited.

 

[gx33]

Even though I am thoroughly impressed with XDS+, the PP is an absolute steal at that price. If the option was available when buying mine (or if i could have afforded to wait) it would have been a no brainer.

 

[Gnasher]

I got my GTI with PP, admittedly I had never driven a PP equipped car prior to buying (I hadn't even driven a Golf at all prior to buying) but since getting it, I'm so glad I did.

My previous car was a 2006 Vauxhall Astra VXR (for you americans, it's a 3 door Saturn Astra with a 2 litre turbocharged engine putting out 237BHP and a nicer body kit/interior/wheels)

Even before I tuned it (Approx 275/280BHP) the car used to spin up the inside wheel incredibly easily (It had GM's version of traction control, which braked the inside wheel when it starts spinning) whereas I can (for instance) floor the GTI out of a T junction in first and it just grips. The traction control light starts flashing but it actually doesn't feel like it's spinning up the inside wheel at all and still accelerates like a scalded cat.

It has the same effect coming off roundabouts etc. and gives so much more confidence in the car, so definitely worth it!

 

[CaptObvious75]

I have driven the identical Mk6 GTI on snow and ice both with and without a mechanical LSD. In general it did not make a big difference. Does it make any difference? Yes. You could find scenarios where one wheel would spin on ice and the LSD helped. However over the entire range of driving conditions in various frozen precipitation types, it's not going to transform the car.



This is *especially* considering the vastly improved XDS+ on the Mk7. It is a big step toward true LSD-like capability. You cannot judge the Mk7 based on how other cars behave -- even the Mk6. The Mk7 is totally different.



What *does* make a much bigger difference is dedicated winter tires. Car & Driver did extensive instrumented tests using identical 2WD and AWD vehicles and found winter tires made a much bigger difference than AWD. IN fact they found a 2WD car with open diff using dedicated winter tires was better than an AWD car with regular all-season tires. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-traction-test-what-price-traction



So if anyone is concerned about winter traction, *that* is the area to pursue. Of course if you get the PP GTI with LSD for performance reasons, then add winter tires, it will be better than the non-PP GTI with the same tires.

Where in from, winter tires are a must.

I was making a comparison based on driving FWD cars that had one wheel to put down power with winter tires vs an LSD equipped vehicle with winter tires.


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[wlfpck]

Hm... I think from the info here, I'll try to get a mk7 now. Now I just need to negotiate a good deal for my trade-in.

 

[mrlapou]

You guys come across one of these? Essentially a GTi but with 280bhp stock from factory...

click here for 280bhp