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GTI vs R Engine Differences

SixSpeeder

Go Kart Champion
Location
Forum, Doe.com
Arin from APR just posted some of the differences in the motor of the MK7 R on vwvortex.com:

  • Cylinder head (made from a different alloy compared to other engines in this module because of higher thermal stress)
  • Exhaust valves (hollow, higher Ni content, nitrided)
  • Exhaust valve seat rings (improved temperature stability and wear resistance)
  • Exhaust camshaft (adapted valve timings)
  • Compression ratio 9.3:1 with different pistons
  • Piston cooling jets (higher flow rate)
  • High pressure injectors (even higher flow rate)
  • Exhaust turbocharger
  • Charge pressures of up to 17.4 PSI (1.2 bar)
  • High performance main radiator with 1-2 auxiliary radiators (depending on country specifications)
  • Additional acoustic modifications have been made in order to achieve a sporty sound - use of a sound actuator (for the occupant cell) and active exhaust flaps in the exhaust system

Arin - That's great information.

I have a question for you, that I haven't seen answered yet (unless I missed it in another thread): Can you compare for us the IHI turbo series to the Borg Warner K03 and K04 turbos to give us an idea of how to compare the two series.

1. Is the IHI turbo in the Mk7 GTI is equal/smaller/larger than BW K03 or K04
2. Same question regarding the turbo in the S3/Golf R
3. What IHI / BW / GTX turbo may be considered in a stage3 kit

1. It's quite different. I'll have to measure the wheels but visually the compressor wheel is smaller than the K04. The turbine wheel has far fewer blades too.

2. The GTI and R are similar - Wheel sizes vary.

3. Borg Warner EFR or Garret GTX. We're trying both paths.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7007282-APR-Presents-the-MK7-GTI-ECU-Upgrade!/page9
 

SixSpeeder

Go Kart Champion
Location
Forum, Doe.com
Turbo specs:

MK7 Golf GTI 2.0T EA888 Gen 3
IHI
6/6 Blade Billet Compressor Wheel & 8 Blade Turbine Wheel
42.5 mm Inducer / 54.0 mm Exducer - Compressor
46.8 mm Inducer / 50.4 mm Exducer - Turbine

MK7 Golf R 2.0T EA888 Gen 3
IHI
6/6 Blade Billet Compressor Wheel & 8 Blade Turbine Wheel
45.2 mm Inducer / 58.0 mm Exducer - Compressor
47.4 mm Inducer / 54.7 mm Exducer - Turbine

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4780&page=8
 

Escape Hatch

Autocross Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Any other differences in the head? Flow rate, port angles, etc.?
 

azlanzul

New member
Location
Malaysia
As the CS engine is a Rs with different software- would it be then possible to configure it - so that the max bhp is available all the time ?
now only as overboost in 3rd gear and above.
 

ChrisMk77

Autocross Champion
Location
Sweden
Car(s)
2018 GTI Performance
As the CS engine is a Rs with different software- would it be then possible to configure it - so that the max bhp is available all the time ?
now only as overboost in 3rd gear and above.

Not if you still have warranty and want to keep it otherwise tune it.
 

gtiargyle1

New member
Location
North Texas
I have owned 2X MK 7 Golf R's and 2X GTI MK 7's , all with APR stage 1 DSG. Here is some of my thinking:
Golf R, a bit more weight (vs GTI) makes a difference. Steering feels more weighted, dull on center & tends to understeer. Unflappable, will not lose traction under WOT and sticks to the road almost freakishly. Fast but a tad undramatic I find the R really benefits/needs stage 1 tuning to bring it to life. With lighter wheels than OE and Michelin PSS tire the car strikes a nice balance between unassuming daily driver and go-fast-fun car. The R is a bit too good for it's own good. Like a tailored business suit holding your belly in, it just does not let you feel the drama of a spirited canyon run or raucous backroad romp. Love The R but...

GTI MK 7.5 (also APR stage 1, w/18" 19lb wheels and Michelin PSS tires.) This little car feels spry, playful, throw-it-in-a-turn with impunity. The GTI puts out a generic EA888 4 banger sound w/ the OE noise making rattle box BUT w/ a little exhaust mod to two and maybe a air box for noise at least gives one some aural feedback. The lightly modded GTI feels faster than the R (it is not!) but gives out the speed in a more visceral way and reaches jail-time speeds very quickly. Around town I much prefer the GTI over the R because it just scoots along, tackles turns and punches out of traffic like a pony. It is simply more fun to drive, where as the R is just too my damn grown up it won't let go (4X drive has a flip side IMO.)
Caveat w. the GTI: To my way of thinking, the GTI needs a mechanical LSD to snap to grid and punch out of a power sweeper or off the line. But this is a $$ mod & many folks just won't see the advantage relative to cost & their own dining needs. The VW electronic LSD works well enough but may be a let down for folks who drive a bit harder & want to be more playful.
At the end of the day it is subjective of course. I do think the GTI is so much fun to drive!! that while the R is great hatch a GTI (with a little help) can provide more a of joyful kind of driving pleasure day in and day out.

PS I have driven VW's and Audi's for 12 years w/ a combined 150K miles and never had any problems related to the tune. All Stage 1 and one stage 2 GTI MK 6.
 
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ATR

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Baltimore
Car(s)
'17 Golf R 6mt
I have owned 2X MK 7 Golf R's and 2X GTI MK 7's , all with APR stage 1 DSG. Here is some of my thinking:
Golf R, a bit more weight (vs GTI) makes a difference. Steering feels more weighted, dull on center & tends to understeer. Unflappable, will not lose traction under WOT and sticks to the road almost freakishly. Fast but a tad undramatic I find the R really benefits/needs stage 1 tuning to bring it to life. With lighter wheels than OE and Michelin PSS tire the car strikes a nice balance between unassuming daily driver and go-fast-fun car. The R is a bit too good for it's own good. Like a tailored business suit holding your belly in, it just does not let you feel the drama of a spirited canyon run or raucous backroad romp. Love The R but...

GTI MK 7.5 (also APR stage 1, w/18" 19lb wheels and Michelin PSS tires.) This little car feels spry, playful, throw-it-in-a-turn with impunity. The GTI puts out a generic EA888 4 banger sound w/ the OE noise making rattle box BUT w/ a little exhaust mod to two and maybe a air box for noise at least gives one some aural feedback. The lightly modded GTI feels faster than the R (it is not!) but gives out the speed in a more visceral way and reaches jail-time speeds very quickly. Around town I much prefer the GTI over the R because it just scoots along, tackles turns and punches out of traffic like a pony. It is simply more fun to drive, where as the R is just too my damn grown up it won't let go (4X drive has a flip side IMO.)
Caveat w. the GTI: To my way of thinking, the GTI needs a mechanical LSD to snap to grid and punch out of a power sweeper or off the line. But this is a $$ mod & many folks just won't see the advantage relative to cost & their own dining needs. The VW electronic LSD works well enough but may be a let down for folks who drive a bit harder & want to be more playful.
At the end of the day it is subjective of course. I do think the GTI is so much fun to drive!! that while the R is great hatch a GTI (with a little help) can provide more a of joyful kind of driving pleasure day in and day out.

PS I have driven VW's and Audi's for 12 years w/ a combined 150K miles and never had any problems related to the tune. All Stage 1 and one stage 2 GTI MK 6.

You can do a little tweak that really helps the traction in the GTI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xlZ6gghqGY

You should definitely change the haldex fluid every 30k in the GTI with this tweak.

I personally had a GTI for a few years and recently went to a R. I can definitely mirror some of the experiences that you had between the R and the GTI. The GTI is as you said is indeed more fun stock for stock. However I really wanted assurance of AWD and being able to get the power down to the ground without the excess wheel spin/hop that I got with the GTI. The R is fun in different ways. and the gearing of the transmission is better for performance driving. I LOVE the 1 > 2 shift in the R compared to the HUGE step from 1 > 2 in the GTI (6MT in both cases).

Both cars are great. I will say I miss the average 27MPG I got in the GTI. I'm gettin ~23-24MPG over the same commute. But if I wanted MPG I would have gotten a TDI over a TSI :p
 
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Ezyrider

Ready to race!
Location
IL
I have owned 2X MK 7 Golf R's and 2X GTI MK 7's , all with APR stage 1 DSG. Here is some of my thinking:
Golf R, a bit more weight (vs GTI) makes a difference. Steering feels more weighted, dull on center & tends to understeer. Unflappable, will not lose traction under WOT and sticks to the road almost freakishly. Fast but a tad undramatic I find the R really benefits/needs stage 1 tuning to bring it to life. With lighter wheels than OE and Michelin PSS tire the car strikes a nice balance between unassuming daily driver and go-fast-fun car. The R is a bit too good for it's own good. Like a tailored business suit holding your belly in, it just does not let you feel the drama of a spirited canyon run or raucous backroad romp. Love The R but...

GTI MK 7.5 (also APR stage 1, w/18" 19lb wheels and Michelin PSS tires.) This little car feels spry, playful, throw-it-in-a-turn with impunity. The GTI puts out a generic EA888 4 banger sound w/ the OE noise making rattle box BUT w/ a little exhaust mod to two and maybe a air box for noise at least gives one some aural feedback. The lightly modded GTI feels faster than the R (it is not!) but gives out the speed in a more visceral way and reaches jail-time speeds very quickly. Around town I much prefer the GTI over the R because it just scoots along, tackles turns and punches out of traffic like a pony. It is simply more fun to drive, where as the R is just too my damn grown up it won't let go (4X drive has a flip side IMO.)
Caveat w. the GTI: To my way of thinking, the GTI needs a mechanical LSD to snap to grid and punch out of a power sweeper or off the line. But this is a $$ mod & many folks just won't see the advantage relative to cost & their own dining needs. The VW electronic LSD works well enough but may be a let down for folks who drive a bit harder & want to be more playful.
At the end of the day it is subjective of course. I do think the GTI is so much fun to drive!! that while the R is great hatch a GTI (with a little help) can provide more a of joyful kind of driving pleasure day in and day out.

PS I have driven VW's and Audi's for 12 years w/ a combined 150K miles and never had any problems related to the tune. All Stage 1 and one stage 2 GTI MK 6.



Great review!

Thanks much


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