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GTI vs Golf R on track

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Location
Slightly Outside Chicago
Car(s)
Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
The GTI and R have a lot of the same limiting factors.

Both are FWD, or primarily FWD.

R has an open front diff, and the GTI has no power going to the rear.

Both lack multi-piston brakes.

Both are extremely front end heavy, and have soft bushings everywhere.

If it was me, I would buy a wavetrac, BBK, and coilovers for the MK6, and have a MUCH better track car than either a stock MK7.5 GTI or R.
This. Lots of people skip bushings, I changed all the bushings in my mk6 track car to 95a poly, completely changed how the car performed
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
The GTI and R have a lot of the same limiting factors.

Both are FWD, or primarily FWD.

R has an open front diff, and the GTI has no power going to the rear.

Both lack multi-piston brakes.

Both are extremely front end heavy, and have soft bushings everywhere.

If it was me, I would buy a wavetrac, BBK, and coilovers for the MK6, and have a MUCH better track car than either a stock MK7.5 GTI or R.

You can do the same with a mk7.5.
 

theclutch

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Boston
Car(s)
Mk6 GTI, C63S AMG
...If it was me, I would buy a wavetrac, BBK, and coilovers for the MK6, and have a MUCH better track car than either a stock MK7.5 GTI or R.

Yes, believe me, I thought about it (and am still thinking about it). I wouldn't bother upgrading the brakes since I don't really need it at the tracks I run. The wavetrack is $1200 + maybe another $1000k in labor. If I upgrade the suspension, it would likely be ST XTA's coil overs (rebound adjustable and already includes camber plates) $1350 and I would install it myself. So that's $3750. I'd have to upgrade the stereo also which would be a PITA.

If I got the GTI Autobahn+Driver Assistance, I get the adjustable-on-the-fly DCC suspension, active cruise control with lane keep assist steering, better infotainment/Android Auto, Fender stereo, VAQ, and the bigger brakes that I don't need yet but would if I run at Watkins Glen again. The problem is, I don't think there are many GTI's spec'ed with both Autobahn AND Driver Assistance included near me.

If I got the R, I'd get all of the above minus the VAQ, plus AWD, plus an extra 300lbs of weight (250 lbs + euro spare tire set that I will add). But it seems that it's easier to find an R with everything in it that it is to find a GTI Autobahn+Driver Assist.

So it might come down to which used car shows up first in my neck of the woods. I think I'll be happy with either 7.5 GTI or R. It's my daily driver and my "it's-not-too-precious-car-so-I-won't-feel-bad-about-tracking-it" car.
 

Gvazquez

Go Kart Champion
Location
North Carolina
I would probably leave it on since you have a LSD. The non PP has an open diff so XDS does not work properly.
I'm pretty sure my car doesn't come with a factory LSD, right? Just open front diff and haldex rear diff?
 

FlyingNugget

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Toronto, Canada
Yes, believe me, I thought about it (and am still thinking about it). I wouldn't bother upgrading the brakes since I don't really need it at the tracks I run. The wavetrack is $1200 + maybe another $1000k in labor. If I upgrade the suspension, it would likely be ST XTA's coil overs (rebound adjustable and already includes camber plates) $1350 and I would install it myself. So that's $3750. I'd have to upgrade the stereo also which would be a PITA.

If I got the GTI Autobahn+Driver Assistance, I get the adjustable-on-the-fly DCC suspension, active cruise control with lane keep assist steering, better infotainment/Android Auto, Fender stereo, VAQ, and the bigger brakes that I don't need yet but would if I run at Watkins Glen again. The problem is, I don't think there are many GTI's spec'ed with both Autobahn AND Driver Assistance included near me.

If I got the R, I'd get all of the above minus the VAQ, plus AWD, plus an extra 300lbs of weight (250 lbs + euro spare tire set that I will add). But it seems that it's easier to find an R with everything in it that it is to find a GTI Autobahn+Driver Assist.

So it might come down to which used car shows up first in my neck of the woods. I think I'll be happy with either 7.5 GTI or R. It's my daily driver and my "it's-not-too-precious-car-so-I-won't-feel-bad-about-tracking-it" car.

Sure, but then this discussion isn't about which option will be best for track usage, which we know for sure would be a built MK6 vs a stock 7.5GTI/R.

Yes, the MK7.5 will be a bit nicer as far as creature comforts: android auto, fender audio, auto cruise control, etc.

Just note that the PP brakes are just ok, and not meant for track usage. They will have limitations on feel, weight, heat management, and pad swapping ease compared to a real BBK.

Also, if you ever want to change the suspension on a MK7.5 with driver assistance and DCC suspension, you will need DCC deletes, and possibly a recalibration of the diver assistance units.

The R will be slightly lower and stiffer, have insane launches, and you can do doughnuts in the winter - I'd go with that :)
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Not sure what groups you plan to run on track with, but several do not allow cars on track that have driver assistance features. I know pca in my region does not allow it unless it's fully defeatable, and in most cars with those features it's not. Not sure about the gti or r though...
 

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
Not sure what groups you plan to run on track with, but several do not allow cars on track that have driver assistance features. I know pca in my region does not allow it unless it's fully defeatable, and in most cars with those features it's not. Not sure about the gti or r though...

I am probably missing something here. What do they consider "driver assistance features"? I understand things like lane assist and brake assist, but ABS, traction control, stability control are also all driver assists. I've never heard of any group (PCA included), outside of those who have timed events where your car is put into a specitic performance group, where they require this. Run with PCA, BMW SCDA, NASA and others in a few regions.

I've been running advanced for over 20 years and 7 years instructing and I still run with stability control in the partially turned off setting on my R
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I am probably missing something here. What do they consider "driver assistance features"? I understand things like lane assist and brake assist, but ABS, traction control, stability control are also all driver assists. I've never heard of any group (PCA included), outside of those who have timed events where your car is put into a specitic performance group, where they require this. Run with PCA, BMW SCDA, NASA and others in a few regions.

I've been running advanced for over 20 years and 7 years instructing and I still run with stability control in the partially turned off setting on my R
The lane assist, automatic braking, etc. Pca in my area has had issues with them auto braking apparently. Abs and stuff is your choice. Those are proven things. Relying on software to determine if you're going to be in a collision and automatically locking your brakes is not so great. Some cars (like certain audi) will also lock all 4 wheels if jostled enough by a curb or off track incident to trigger the yaw sensor check. No rules against those cars, but would not be my preference to use on track...
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
At least with VAG products you can code them out.
 

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
The lane assist, automatic braking, etc. Pca in my area has had issues with them auto braking apparently. Abs and stuff is your choice. Those are proven things. Relying on software to determine if you're going to be in a collision and automatically locking your brakes is not so great. Some cars (like certain audi) will also lock all 4 wheels if jostled enough by a curb or off track incident to trigger the yaw sensor check. No rules against those cars, but would not be my preference to use on track...

OK. Thanks. That makes total sense. My very first track day with my R I had totally forgotten about brake assist (never had a car with it before). I came off after 3 laps thinking something was terribly wrong before I realized what the problem was.
 
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Gvazquez

Go Kart Champion
Location
North Carolina
Exactly what features are you guys disabling or changing? Brake assist should be off right?
 

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
I disable all assists that can be disabled from the cockpit other than stability control. With the car in "race" mode I use the single tap (stability control "disabled") function, which isn't actually disabled. I've tried many laps with it all the way off (hold the button for a few seconds) and it made zero difference in my lap times and surprisingly no difference in feel even when pushing very hard. I much prefer the extra isurance, and if you continue to drive smoothly as you push it and get faster you'll notice little or no difference. Having it fully enabled made the car undrivable at the track.

As mentioned before, lane assist and brake assist must be turned off.
 
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