Mk7 GTI isn't available without VAQ in 2019+, so I'm not sure comparing an XDS only car to a mechanical diff is relevant at this point. I'd assume if he's buying a new car, comparing VAQ and XDS equipped vs mechanical LDS would be more helpful.
7
GTI vs Golf R on track
- Thread starter theclutch
- Start date
Mk7 GTI isn't available without VAQ in 2019+, so I'm not sure comparing an XDS only car to a mechanical diff is relevant at this point. I'd assume if he's buying a new car, comparing VAQ and XDS equipped vs mechanical LDS would be more helpful.
MrFancypants
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Ho,e
- Car(s)
- GTI
Okay, then please offer that “more helpful” comparison to the OP.
"XDS+" which mk6 and mk7s have, brakes both inner wheels
No, thats a separate system called EDL, which is a brake based "e" diff, it only works up to 35mph, that uses the ABS speed sensors.
XDS ("cross differential lock") uses corner loading, yaw angle, steering input, etc and brakes the inner wheels whether they are spinning or not.
edit: clarity
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My VAQ car is much more predictable than my non-PP car and it doesn't heat up the front tires like the non-PP car. If you're ever tracking in Florida, I'd love to compare a VAQ car and LSD car, and I'm sure you would too, but I was just pointing out that your comparing a mech LSD car to a spec that isn't even available anymore.
Both use the brakes to limit wheel spin, yes? Both will heat up brakes if so. VAQ or a mechanical don't use the brakes.
MrFancypants
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Ho,e
- Car(s)
- GTI
It wasn't necessary.
I am most likely only looking at 2018 GTI or Golf R . I want the "7.5". So are you telling me that there are 2018 GTI's that don't have VAQ? I don't think 2018s had Perf Packages. So how do I know if a 2018 GTI does or doesn't have VAQ?
gti330ex
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Chicagoland
Nice video and comparison! Why is there a 40HP advantage with the GTI? What intercooler/tune/gas is GTI on?
Yes, 2018 GTI S does not have the VAQ. You have to buy SE or Autobahn in 2018 models to get it.
Non-PP turn off for track. Non--PP with aftermarket LSD leave it on. PP leave it on.
I tracked my non-PP and melted the center caps and front tires got so hot, it transitioned into understeer after 3 laps.
Cliff
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
- Car(s)
- 2015 Cayman GTS
A GTI with an IS38 turbo and a downpipe (which implies stage 2 software) is putting down stage 2 Golf R horsepower numbers. I think he's somewhere over 400 while I'm more like 360ish. I have no idea which tune he is running, nor which intercooler.
Half fast
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Jersey City
- Car(s)
- Mk7 GTI
I’ve done about a dozen events in each car. I think the GTI handles better and is more fun to drive. Also, you can spend half the price difference making shoring up the weaknesses on the GTI (power, understeer).
gti330ex
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Chicagoland
Yea i got that, just didn't realize there was such big gap. I was thinking max of 10 - 20hp for DP difference.
I just did 2 days in a row at Laguna Seca in my 17 R DSG that has upgraded Neuspeed calipers, isweep 3000 pads, motul 600 fluid, Eibach pro kit springs, 034 top mounts and some 18x8.5 Titan 7 wheels on P4S's and I would recommend to go GTI. When comparing performance metrics both the R and the GTI have their plus and minus. Track configuration, track conditions and driver skill will be the determining factor as to which will be faster on any given day if comparing stock for stock.
My R with no other mods than what I listed was running low 1:47's all day (the day I had timing) in very hot conditions. That's better than I expected for a stock power full weight fully optioned R in damn near 100 degree weather but honestly I wouldn't recommend it for a track day HPDE car. I only did it because my EVO is down waiting for a new transfer case to arrive and my miata's starter decided the day before we left to stop working along with finding a hard to fix oil leak when pulling it off of the storage lift.
Biggest reason for me to pick the GTI over the R would be the weight difference, higher potential cost to maintain the R due to AWD haldex system and more expensive consumables. I wouldn't really think too much about which one would be the better track weapon because if I was concerned about that I wouldn't pick either.
After playing with the XDS at the track I would highly recommend to have it turned off especially if you trail braking like Cliff mentioned. Reason being if you are skilled enough to trail brake effectively then the XDS will just overheat your rear brakes. I've confirmed with a temp gauge that the XDS in fact loads the rear brakes up with a significant amount of heat as Neuspeed warned me before I went to the track. I found though that for myself and given the tires I was on trail braking was slower for me at Laguna. So many factors that can effect this so would need more time at different tracks to really know if this is the best method to get the R around a corner faster. Best thing for me was to be as smooth as possible to maintain as much momentum and use every mm of track width as I could to not scrub off speed from this plow monster
Also, I owned a well sorted mk7 GTI at the same time as my R but recently sold the GTI to my little brother. He brought it to Laguna the same weekend but we really didn't get a chance to run against each other but I am pretty certain that the GTI would have easily outperformed my R given it's pretty well setup and making more power with less weight. That's just my opinion though as I did not get the chance to drive both on the same day.
My R with no other mods than what I listed was running low 1:47's all day (the day I had timing) in very hot conditions. That's better than I expected for a stock power full weight fully optioned R in damn near 100 degree weather but honestly I wouldn't recommend it for a track day HPDE car. I only did it because my EVO is down waiting for a new transfer case to arrive and my miata's starter decided the day before we left to stop working along with finding a hard to fix oil leak when pulling it off of the storage lift.
Biggest reason for me to pick the GTI over the R would be the weight difference, higher potential cost to maintain the R due to AWD haldex system and more expensive consumables. I wouldn't really think too much about which one would be the better track weapon because if I was concerned about that I wouldn't pick either.
After playing with the XDS at the track I would highly recommend to have it turned off especially if you trail braking like Cliff mentioned. Reason being if you are skilled enough to trail brake effectively then the XDS will just overheat your rear brakes. I've confirmed with a temp gauge that the XDS in fact loads the rear brakes up with a significant amount of heat as Neuspeed warned me before I went to the track. I found though that for myself and given the tires I was on trail braking was slower for me at Laguna. So many factors that can effect this so would need more time at different tracks to really know if this is the best method to get the R around a corner faster. Best thing for me was to be as smooth as possible to maintain as much momentum and use every mm of track width as I could to not scrub off speed from this plow monster
Also, I owned a well sorted mk7 GTI at the same time as my R but recently sold the GTI to my little brother. He brought it to Laguna the same weekend but we really didn't get a chance to run against each other but I am pretty certain that the GTI would have easily outperformed my R given it's pretty well setup and making more power with less weight. That's just my opinion though as I did not get the chance to drive both on the same day.
Gvazquez
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- North Carolina
What are the mods of your gti vs your r? Like what makes it more well setupI just did 2 days in a row at Laguna Seca in my 17 R DSG that has upgraded Neuspeed calipers, isweep 3000 pads, motul 600 fluid, Eibach pro kit springs, 034 top mounts and some 18x8.5 Titan 7 wheels on P4S's and I would recommend to go GTI. When comparing performance metrics both the R and the GTI have their plus and minus. Track configuration, track conditions and driver skill will be the determining factor as to which will be faster on any given day if comparing stock for stock.
My R with no other mods than what I listed was running low 1:47's all day (the day I had timing) in very hot conditions. That's better than I expected for a stock power full weight fully optioned R in damn near 100 degree weather but honestly I wouldn't recommend it for a track day HPDE car. I only did it because my EVO is down waiting for a new transfer case to arrive and my miata's starter decided the day before we left to stop working along with finding a hard to fix oil leak when pulling it off of the storage lift.
Biggest reason for me to pick the GTI over the R would be the weight difference, higher potential cost to maintain the R due to AWD haldex system and more expensive consumables. I wouldn't really think too much about which one would be the better track weapon because if I was concerned about that I wouldn't pick either.
After playing with the XDS at the track I would highly recommend to have it turned off especially if you trail braking like Cliff mentioned. Reason being if you are skilled enough to trail brake effectively then the XDS will just overheat your rear brakes. I've confirmed with a temp gauge that the XDS in fact loads the rear brakes up with a significant amount of heat as Neuspeed warned me before I went to the track. I found though that for myself and given the tires I was on trail braking was slower for me at Laguna. So many factors that can effect this so would need more time at different tracks to really know if this is the best method to get the R around a corner faster. Best thing for me was to be as smooth as possible to maintain as much momentum and use every mm of track width as I could to not scrub off speed from this plow monster
Also, I owned a well sorted mk7 GTI at the same time as my R but recently sold the GTI to my little brother. He brought it to Laguna the same weekend but we really didn't get a chance to run against each other but I am pretty certain that the GTI would have easily outperformed my R given it's pretty well setup and making more power with less weight. That's just my opinion though as I did not get the chance to drive both on the same day.