GTI to Golf R?

[bentin]

Last point. The R is made in Germany, and you can tell. The GTI feels like a rattle trap comparatively speaking. I've been in both. Have friends that own both.

This is absolute BS. Sorry, but it is. Is it possible that the GTI on the average rattles more than the R? Sure. But is it because it's made in Mexico? No, not at all. Our Q5 is made in Mexico and rattles a lot less than an R. I've had BMW's made in South Carolina, South Africa, Germany and Austria. I couldn't tell any of the apart from a build quality stand point, in fact the only one I had with serious issues was one of the German made ones. One of our German made Audii came with all four directional tires mounted backwards.

I worked for a German company for years and I can tell you that German union employees are not some magical work force that can somehow spin a wrench differently than a Mexican union employee. They still build crappy cars on Fridays, or near holidays, or if their football club is on five minutes after their shift ends.

Plus we'll all get to see how this goes with the Mk8 since Germany will be building all of them again.

 

[sterkrazzy]

You'll get more than that. Have you seen the prices on Rs recently? I could sell mine right now for more than I paid for it brand new 2 years ago.

Of course the market won't always be this strong, but if you are even sniffing the idea of selling your R right now, I'd say it's now or keep it. You won't ever get more for it than now.

Last point. The R is made in Germany, and you can tell. The GTI feels like a rattle trap comparatively speaking. I've been in both. Have friends that own both.

Yea, I thought I bought at the wrong time since I bought it around august 2019 and then soon after that covid happened and for a short time there were some good discounts and really good interest rates. I was kinda kicking myself around then, but now it doesn't really matter. A year and a half and 10k miles later and the price is holding steady. I've been telling myself I'll have this car for about 10 years, but you never know. Right now there isn't a single car out there in my price range that I wish I had instead.

I would say if you put $10,000 into your GTI and it didn't feel worth it, you did it wrong or you have some extreme expectations.

Well like I said some of it was cosmetic, but I feel that's part of it too. There's things on the GTI I don't like so I always felt like I had to replace parts or add more to it. The R's factory form is perfect. The only thing wrong with it was the englishtown wheels.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

This is absolute BS. Sorry, but it is. Is it possible that the GTI on the average rattles more than the R? Sure. But is it because it's made in Mexico? No, not at all. Our Q5 is made in Mexico and rattles a lot less than an R. I've had BMW's made in South Carolina, South Africa, Germany and Austria. I couldn't tell any of the apart from a build quality stand point, in fact the only one I had with serious issues was one of the German made ones. One of our German made Audii came with all four directional tires mounted backwards.

I worked for a German company for years and I can tell you that German union employees are not some magical work force that can somehow spin a wrench differently than a Mexican union employee. They still build crappy cars on Fridays, or near holidays, or if their football club is on five minutes after their shift ends.

Plus we'll all get to see how this goes with the Mk8 since Germany will be building all of them again.

Don't know what to tell ya.

Testament after testament on this forum stating so.

Again, I've been in GTIs. Belong to a local VW group, and have close friends with GTIs that I ride in frequently. There is something to be said about the difference whether you want to believe it or not. Maybe some people just take better care of their cars than others?

I've also been in GTIs & Rs after suspension work. The GTIs just feel less rigid / solid when sitting in them after. Panels sound loose / rattle more. Maybe this also depends on your area / weather patterns? Lots of variables, I get it.

Edit: I've also spoken with managers at VW dealerships and had these conversations. There is a certain level of attention / expectation that go into the German made cars when they come in for service etc. I've heard statements like "these cars are built a bit different etc.) Though, the MK7 GTI was praised to be one of, if not the best car to ever come out of the Puebla plant down south. There's a lot that can be said about that.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Also, just to clarify... The rs3 is a great car, m2, m3, and all the others are wonderful cars. Anything thats geared to being sporty is great.

My point was that with merely a bit of modification I made my car for more direct and enjoyable to drive. I had to sacrifice a lot of comfort, but now I'm demodding stuff and going in the other direction to find a happy medium. Just jumping into an R or any of the other cars isn't the solution since I know I'd be modifying them next and ruining them then unruining them. It's just the way it goes. Street cars are street cars and when we want more out of them we have to find the right stuff to compromise on. The only exception is a Porsche... There's no compromise there.

 

[bentin]

Don't know what to tell ya.

Testament after testament on this forum stating so.

Again, I've been in GTIs. Belong to a local VW group, and have close friends with GTIs that I ride in frequently. There is something to be said about the difference whether you want to believe it or not. Maybe some people just take better care of their cars than others?

I've also been in GTIs & Rs after suspension work. The GTIs just feel less rigid / solid when sitting in them after. Panels sound loose / rattle more. Maybe this also depends on your area / weather patterns? Lots of variables, I get it.

I'm not arguing GTI vs R, I'd hope there is some difference in bracing, etc. But they could make either car in either location and they'd be exactly the same. Your statement was that the R is magically better because it's made by Germans and that's simply a load of bs.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

I'm not arguing GTI vs R, I'd hope there is some difference in bracing, etc. But they could make either car in either location and they'd be exactly the same. Your statement was that the R is magically better because it's made by Germans and that's simply a load of bs.

Pasting my edit from before as you prob didn't see it.

Edit: I've also spoken with managers at VW dealerships and had these conversations. There is a certain level of attention / expectation that go into the German made cars when they come in for service etc. I've heard statements like "these cars are built a bit different etc.) Though, the MK7 GTI was praised to be one of, if not the best car to ever come out of the Puebla plant down south. There's a lot that can be said about that.

I also never said anything about magic. There are things like QC, attention to detail, panel gapping, paint uniformity, differences in tools & equipment, etc. that all go into the car manufacturing process. None of us really know if the Mexico plant / Germany plants are using all of the same stuff. They are two totally different operations. When it comes to the people, I agree with you completely. You can teach anyone to build a car. Same process... but remember Das Auto.

 

[launchd]

Also, just to clarify... The rs3 is a great car, m2, m3, and all the others are wonderful cars. Anything thats geared to being sporty is great.

My point was that with merely a bit of modification I made my car for more direct and enjoyable to drive. I had to sacrifice a lot of comfort, but now I'm demodding stuff and going in the other direction to find a happy medium. Just jumping into an R or any of the other cars isn't the solution since I know I'd be modifying them next and ruining them then unruining them. It's just the way it goes. Street cars are street cars and when we want more out of them we have to find the right stuff to compromise on. The only exception is a Porsche... There's no compromise there.

I completely agree with you.

I was SO CLOSE to pulling the trigger on a TTRS but I couldn't justify the price vs. what it provided me from a performance driving perspective compared to my modded GTI. Granted it was stock and if I had modded it my GTI would be a joke, but it was just too hard to justify the price difference. So I returned my S5 from it's lease, got an A7 to replace it and I'm patiently waiting for the other DAZA engine car (RS3) that is cheaper than it's sibling (TTRS) to get rid of my GTI and start on my next project.

 

[vbrad26]

None of us really know...

I think that about sums it up.
My Mexican MK7 is just as good, if not better than my German MK6.
If anything, its the American plant we have to worry about lol.
My wifes Atlas is a rattle trap and has been since day 1.

 

[victorofhavoc]

I completely agree with you.

I was SO CLOSE to pulling the trigger on a TTRS but I couldn't justify the price vs. what it provided me from a performance driving perspective compared to my modded GTI. Granted it was stock and if I had modded it my GTI would be a joke, but it was just too hard to justify the price difference. So I returned my S5 from it's lease, got an A7 to replace it and I'm patiently waiting for the other DAZA engine car (RS3) that is cheaper than it's sibling (TTRS) to get rid of my GTI and start on my next project.

How do you like the a7? The a6 was too soft for me, even compared to our Q7 (the supercharged 3.0t - love this car sooo much), but they didn't have a reasonable a7 that day so I didn't get to try it. I LOVE the way the a7 looks. Imo it's better than the rs7 from every angle except rear 3/4.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

I think that about sums it up.
My Mexican MK7 is just as good, if not better than my German MK6.
If anything, its the American plant we have to worry about lol.
My wifes Atlas is a rattle trap and has been since day 1.

I agree, it's subjective and all cars are different. I guess my point was just the number of times it's been brought up, on this forum and elsewhere. I would think taking good care of the car, not beating on it, leaving the suspension stock, and having the car properly maintained will have more of an impact than anything else. Also, weather is huge... prob more so than people realize. If you look closely at the maintenance schedule for VWs in general, you'll see words like "lubricate." Referring to door checks, bushings, sunroof, etc. (although the R obviously didn't have a sun roof) Not sure if this is actually being done during most visits to the dealership if that's where you bring your car, but indy shops or people who do their own oil changes sure as hell aren't. Unless maybe if you go to specialty euro shops or specifically ask.

Other than my R, I have a 2020 Tiguan SEL Prem R Line. Top trim, and I've had a rattle behind the dash from day one. Steering wheel also randomly wiggles. Sometimes it happens the entire time I'm driving the car, other times not at all. Almost as if the balance is out of spec, but balance would be consistent. AC also doesn't blow as cold. In terms of sourcing parts, I'm not sure what the difference is between where the cars are made. I DO know that anytime I've needed parts for my R, they either come from the Audi dealership or are special order. Maybe that's just because it's not as common to have those parts on hand?

 

[NopeR]

Whatever, teslas are better.

/thread

 

[jimlloyd40]

I guess I'm lucky. My 18 SE doesn't have any rattles at 126,000 miles and 416 HP. The only problem I've had was the thermostat housing leak and that was covered under warranty. Very solid well built car.

 

[Daks]

I guess I'm lucky. My 18 SE doesn't have any rattles at 126,000 miles and 416 HP. The only problem I've had was the thermostat housing leak and that was covered under warranty. Very solid well built car.

Jim, I'd agree, my GTI has 66K miles and it is a well built car, but coming from a MK6R, it felt different. The best way to describe it is that my old R was built in Germany on Tuesday at 10:45AM, and the GTI was built in Mexico on Thursday at 4:15PM.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Jim, I'd agree, my GTI has 66K miles and it is a well built car, but coming from a MK6R, it felt different. The best way to describe it is that my old R was built in Germany on Tuesday at 10:45AM, and the GTI was built in Mexico on Thursday at 4:15PM.

View attachment 210531

My car has zero "rattles", but all the seals creak several times per year, and any time I hit a bump, pothole, or whatever you can hear interior bits moving as they resettle. I'm generally very sensitive and particular to car noises, and stuff like this bothers me, because a touch of felt tape between panels would have entirely prevented this noise. Honda put felt tape between panels in my 05 accord years ago, and if you drive one of those cars today, they're totally rattle and noise free for the most part.

This also occurs in our Q7 but not to anywhere near as large of a degree as the vw. The audi absorbs impacts for the most part and periodically, especially with weather changes, the interior plastics will make noise. Both the Q7 and gti have a really, really, really stupid design for door edge window trim and it makes tons of noise. I ripped it all apart on the gti and inserted felt tape everywhere, it helped a ton.

Conversely, I recall a 2004 vw jetta my friend had that never had any of these interior noise quibbles. Granted it probably had 1/3rd the plastic parts too...

 

[hans611]

......The Golf R is not worth it's price tag from a pure modding/performance perspective. The haldex faux AWD system is not worth $10,000+ over the GTI.....

Why does everyone keep saying that... its not 10k.... The difference between the R and an Autobahn was like 5 grand in 2017, last I checked... Sure you can spec a GTI cheaper, possibly get a better deal from the dealer, but its not 10,000 less, you arent getting the same stuff.

And for the 5 grand you get the IS38, the rear Haldex/AWD..... the nicer engine (Cylinder head, Exhaust valves, camshaft, injectors... the bigger intercooler, radiators...), the body kit.... etc.... Oh and an actual German car... sorry I am from south America, ill prefer my car from Germany lol

Oh and after the 5 grand initial cost... after they reach their "end of life", around 125-150k miles... The Golf R will still be actually worth something, will the GTI will be just another $3,000 beater. Sorry, but I learned that when selling my Mk5...... you can look at used car prices now, look how much a 2012 Golf R goes for? Now look at a 2012 GTI with the same milage .... you will more than get your 5 grand back.

.......My $26,500 GTI (NEW) with all of it's mods (which puts it right at the USED Golf R price point) will spank a stock Golf R from a dig. You would be spending another $10,000+ easy on mods for a Golf R to get it to perform marginally better than a (correctly) modded GTI and at that price point, you should've just bought a RS3......

Lol you would not spank a stock Golf R from a dig....... a dig until What? 120mph? The Stock Golf R does sub 5s to 0-60s, it would pull like 2 cars on you in the first quarter of a second.... unless you have drag radials on a drag strip, I dont see it....

Also, the golf R would just spend the 800$ on a tune and then it would be guaranteed..... oh and the RS3 is like in another level cost wise, its like 2 level ahead of the R, the GTI and R almost cost the same compared to an RS3.....