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Golf R versus Tesla model 3.

GolfR-BA

New member
Location
Bay Area
I crossed shopped the Model 3, but it seemed like an expensive commuter car to me. You can go LA-SF and other major routes with plenty of places to charge. But most places my daughter and I road trip to in the South West are not reachable in an EV because of limited or no charging stations available. Even the trips with charging stations can be very backed up during peak times. There were 2 hour waits just to start charging over the Holidays between LA-SF. Then add 40 minutes once you start charging.

It is also my understanding you can deplete the battery very fast on track days. Plus, the batteries can heat up during hard driving and then the computer cuts power. I think the 3 handles the battery better than the S, but still an issue that doesn't get much attention. A friend of mine worked at Tesla for a couple years. He claimed Ludicrous mode on the S could deplete the battery by up to 40% on just one launch!

EVs have come a long way and are the future, but there are still places and reasons they are behind ICE.
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
I crossed shopped the Model 3, but it seemed like an expensive commuter car to me. You can go LA-SF and other major routes with plenty of places to charge. But most places my daughter and I road trip to in the South West are not reachable in an EV because of limited or no charging stations available. Even the trips with charging stations can be very backed up during peak times. There were 2 hour waits just to start charging over the Holidays between LA-SF. Then add 40 minutes once you start charging.

It is also my understanding you can deplete the battery very fast on track days. Plus, the batteries can heat up during hard driving and then the computer cuts power. I think the 3 handles the battery better than the S, but still an issue that doesn't get much attention. A friend of mine worked at Tesla for a couple years. He claimed Ludicrous mode on the S could deplete the battery by up to 40% on just one launch!

EVs have come a long way and are the future, but there are still places and reasons they are behind ICE.
Thanks for the info on charging stations. I always figured it was like that but this the first I heard it first-hand. I know Ludicrous mode heats up the batteries and uses more battery power, but 40% on one launch seems like an excessive amount.
 

dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Location
Berkshire
I know Ludicrous mode heats up the batteries and uses more battery power, but 40% on one launch seems like an excessive amount.
This is why they have cooling systems for the batteries, and yeah 40% is nonsense. Tesla routinely take demo cars to shows and do launches all day long on a single charge. Biggest load of....
 

dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Location
Berkshire
EVs have come a long way and are the future, but there are still places and reasons they are behind ICE.
Of course. In many people's opinions however there are places and reasons they're way, way ahead.

Fwiw I recall track days where they've deliberately modified the track design so all those ICE cars don't blow up their engines.. A golf R wastes more energy as heat out the exhaust pipe and radiator during a launch than they put into making the car go forward. Most electric cars don't even contain the same amount of energy as a gallon of petrol, and yet they can do hundreds of miles on it, including full throttle launches in ludicrous mode.

For me, I'm sold. I can't wait to go electric.
 

GolfR-BA

New member
Location
Bay Area
This is why they have cooling systems for the batteries, and yeah 40% is nonsense. Tesla routinely take demo cars to shows and do launches all day long on a single charge. Biggest load of....

Maybe, but that is what a former Tesla engineer told me a couple years ago. I have not doubt it has improved since then. My buddy couldn't take the work environment at Tesla like so many others, so yeah, my data is old.

Most electric cars don't even contain the same amount of energy as a gallon of petrol, and yet they can do hundreds of miles on it, including full throttle launches in ludicrous mode.

Where did you learn this as it doesn't match anything I've seen. Take a look at this calculator. California prices, currently getting 30 MPG, driving style Sport, 1,300 miles a month - sounds close to me in my R. Calculator says I'd save $100/month. Take a look at the Tesla forums. A bunch of Tesla owners claim somewhere around 110-130 eMPG depending on driving habits. Therefore I think a full charge is more like 3 gallons of gas. But I'd love to be proved wrong and be shown that is is actually 1 gallon as you report.

https://teslanomics.co/tesla-model-3-fuel-savings-calculator/
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Of course. In many people's opinions however there are places and reasons they're way, way ahead.

Fwiw I recall track days where they've deliberately modified the track design so all those ICE cars don't blow up their engines.. A golf R wastes more energy as heat out the exhaust pipe and radiator during a launch than they put into making the car go forward. Most electric cars don't even contain the same amount of energy as a gallon of petrol, and yet they can do hundreds of miles on it, including full throttle launches in ludicrous mode.

For me, I'm sold. I can't wait to go electric.
The problem is there's no way to hop up an electric car.
 

dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Location
Berkshire
This is why they have cooling systems for the batteries, and yeah 40% is nonsense. Tesla routinely take demo cars to shows and do launches all day long on a single charge. Biggest load of....

Maybe, but that is what a former Tesla engineer told me a couple years ago. I have not doubt it has improved since then. My buddy couldn't take the work environment at Tesla like so many others, so yeah, my data is old.

Most electric cars don't even contain the same amount of energy as a gallon of petrol, and yet they can do hundreds of miles on it, including full throttle launches in ludicrous mode.

Where did you learn this as it doesn't match anything I've seen. Take a look at this calculator. California prices, currently getting 30 MPG, driving style Sport, 1,300 miles a month - sounds close to me in m.y R. Calculator says I'd save $100/month. Take a look at the Tesla forums. A bunch of Tesla owners claim somewhere around 110-130 eMPG depending on driving habits. Therefore I think a full charge is more like 3 gallons of gas. But I'd love to be proved wrong and be shown that is is actually 1 gallon as you report.

https://teslanomics.co/tesla-model-3-fuel-savings-calculator/
Ok so I've been in demo tesla cars where we've been full throttle launching repeatedly for twenty minutes on my own test drive, and the car has been doing that all day as part of a trade show, and still had to be driven thirty miles back to base that evening. There is no way it was dropping even noticeably on the gauge during my test drive, and let me put it this way I was making the traction control work for a living... (A very enjoyable experience I might add, and way, way quicker than anything you can buy with a VW badge on it! Seriously, it weighed nearly two tons but felt sprightly and supercar quick.)

Regarding the fuel equivalence, I take the point that the Teslas have bigger batteries than a lot of common electric cars and can see that they are pushing towards 2 gallon capacity equivalent, but for something like a BMW i3 it comes with less than one (erm, UK) gallons worth of energy onboard but should be capable of nearly 150 miles on it.

I believe a UK gallon of petrol is equivalent to about 50kwh of energy. US gallon slightly less. Even the big Teslas are doing 3 miles per kWh, and the light BMW i3 even more in good conditions.

When I've calculated my own driving savings (charge at home, 40 miles a day commute) I estimate my current annual fuel bill of £1200 will reduce to £250 on all electric. I'm not in the market for a tesla, unfortunately, but a tidy i3s has 200lbft and outperforms most cars you'd see on the road - on the road. On the track for sure there's plenty of cars will be quicker (there always are).
 
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dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Location
Berkshire
The problem is there's no way to hop up an electric car.
I had to look this up, lol. Back to tuning then. There is. Build your own electric car. In ten years time people will be working on electric cars in their garages and creating stuff you can't imagine today. Right now, the cars are too new for people to be doing much with them, but it'll come.

There are open source motor controller circuits out there already. Build your own.

Different skills for sure, but it's not art it's still science.
 

GolfR-BA

New member
Location
Bay Area
Saw this Porsche vs. Model S article that relates to some of my earlier comments.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-183200588.html

I believe the Model 3 is better at managing the battery, but I found this paragraph on the S interesting:

"And for all the discussion of the Model S's fleetness, it is incredibly fussy to achieve its max-acceleration times. It must be fully charged, and using the Ludicrous Plus mode requires preheating the battery for 45 minutes. After the initial hero run, the Tesla's times fall off quickly, slowing to the point that we were jotting notes while waiting for the quarter-mile to arrive."

1581298424270.png
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Saw this Porsche vs. Model S article that relates to some of my earlier comments.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-183200588.html

I believe the Model 3 is better at managing the battery, but I found this paragraph on the S interesting:

"And for all the discussion of the Model S's fleetness, it is incredibly fussy to achieve its max-acceleration times. It must be fully charged, and using the Ludicrous Plus mode requires preheating the battery for 45 minutes. After the initial hero run, the Tesla's times fall off quickly, slowing to the point that we were jotting notes while waiting for the quarter-mile to arrive."

View attachment 165030
Well I guess if all you were buying was a car for drag racing than the Porsche would be the way to go. But in the real world the Tesla still has more range and cost $85.000 less. Oh and it won that comparison test also.
 

dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Location
Berkshire
Yes, terrible isn't it? At its worst, the Model S dropped to being still-slightly-quicker than pretty much every other competing car in its price and size range. :)

Also remember: the Model S came out 8 years ago...!
 
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