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Going insane.Need Help. 2019 R Left turns from stop "tire gripping" / grinding sound with vibration

zepharus1

New member
Location
Syracuse, NY
So Im going completely insane trying to figure this out., there is now a new symptom (BTW i've taken this to the dealer and they said normal no issues, of course)

since day one, ive noticed that SOME, not all times I take a left turn from a stop position to a street, there is a really odd, grinding/tire gripping type sound that can be persistent as long as I hold the tight left turn. i have duplicated this in a parking lot. To further add to it I rode in my back seat while my son was driving and I not only heard it but felt a vibration under my ass, I was on the passergerside in the rear seat.

WTF is this??!? No way this is normal at all but the dealer says otherwise.

An additional layer to this is that if I accelerate quickly and then left off the accelerator I hear this very odd whooshing metal noise like something bearing related was speed up and then slowed to its own stop. Im getting very frustrated with these little oddities that my GTi never had. Regretting the R at this point and hoping for a lifeline here.

thanks in advance
 
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emichel6888

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
TX
What tires are you running? Any suspension modifications? Sound like you are experiencing what some call the "Ackerman effect" I also experience this on occasion, but I am running MPS4S tires and have suspension modifications. I do not recall experiencing it when the car was stock however, on the right road surface and weather conditions this effect can be felt (and heard) on any car. Although some cars experience it more often than others (particularly high performance cars). It is apparently a well known issue on the Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari... See here:
http://www.mcgrathautoblog.com/auto...ann Effect:,at different speeds and distances.
In fact on some race cars Ackerman steering is adjustable for tuning handling characteristics. If your car is stock and it is happening to an unusual degree, it could be that the tire rod symmetry is off. That is how Ackerman steering is adjusted and is very easy to check:
Tie rod symmetry.jpg
 

AR11

Ready to race!
Location
CA
I think I am experiencing the same thing. Here is a thread I started about it: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...-rumble-when-pulling-away-from-a-stop.374423/

I think the ackerman explanation makes sense. I noticed this sometime after swapping the stock tires for PS4S. I wish there were a better way I could at least "confirm" this is what I am experiencing since it is not really "fixable". If it is an inherent characteristic of the car design I don't know why more folks don't comment about it.
 

zepharus1

New member
Location
Syracuse, NY
I think I am experiencing the same thing. Here is a thread I started about it: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...-rumble-when-pulling-away-from-a-stop.374423/

I think the ackerman explanation makes sense. I noticed this sometime after swapping the stock tires for PS4S. I wish there were a better way I could at least "confirm" this is what I am experiencing since it is not really "fixable". If it is an inherent characteristic of the car design I don't know why more folks don't comment about it.
I feel like we have the same issue. What you wrote is exactely what I feel. It is completely aggrivating to me as i never felt this in my GTI.
 

sterkrazzy

Autocross Newbie
Location
United States
Car(s)
2018 R
I've never felt the ackerman effect in my car, but I drove a corvette a few weeks and it was pretty obvious. My dad had been driving the vette so after I drove it he asked me if I felt it and wasn't sure what he was talking about. I never turned the wheel far enough so I never felt it, but if you turned the steering all the way in one direction and started accelerating you feel it every time. I've done the same kind of turns in my R and I've never experienced anything like that before.
 

AR11

Ready to race!
Location
CA
I've had my car aligned twice and am wondering if I wound up with asymmetrical tie rod lengths as shown in the diagram emichel6888 provided above. @zepharus1, have you had any alignments done? I'm make a point of checking this measurement but I don't know if I can do to within 2.5mm accuracy as is called for. This will take some careful caliper work.
 

AR11

Ready to race!
Location
CA
The alternative scenario I'm considering is that I/we may have a tie rod issue. I would think this to be unlikely given our cars are relatively new. This is what the play in my rack looks like (few years old). Does anyone think this amount of play might be indicative of a tie rod issue?
 

emichel6888

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
TX
It could possibly be your steering rack or tie rod symmetry (both are very easy to check), or it could just be circumstantial. These cars come with very stiff low profile high performance tires, and even though they don't require high temperatures to achieve optimum grip and slip angle, they do soften up and grip better with at least some heat in them. When you turn the steering wheel a lot one tire does drag the other, so on the right surface with a cool stiff tires, it can develop this resonance effect.
So it is very possible that a lot of folks rarely if ever drive under these specific conditions, while others might experience it frequently. There are a lot of variables that contribute to this effect, such as tire type and size, road surface, turning angle, speed, tire and road surface temperature, suspension stiffness... This effect is far less likely to happen on warm tires, but perhaps some folks routinely start out turning sharply at low speed on just the right sort of road surface, so for them they get this effect a lot more often, whereas others would almost never hit those particular conditions.

Have you ever made a glass sing by rubbing the top with a wet finger in just the right way? It is kind of like that only at a much lower resonance frequency. One could touch a glass with wet hands your entire life and never make it resonate, but touch it in just the right way under certain conditions and it becomes a musical instrument. So it is very possible that a lot of folks that say this never happens to them, well if they drove their car in the same way, on the same road surface, under the same conditions, they would experience as well. If you switch to a softer higher profile tire you could drastically reduce the possibility, or perhaps adjust your driving style slightly.
I have experienced this effect with my car, but not often, maybe 5-6 times a year, and in every case it was just starting out (so cold tires), taking a sharp turn at low speed while accelerating. I noticed it happened more often after switching to a more aggressive tire with stiffer suspension modifications, but it can also happen with a perfectly good stock car if the conditions are right. It is very minor and nothing to be concerned about IMO, but it is a side effect of the performance aspects of this car. So you either go for a lower performance softer tire, adjust your driving style under those conditions, or just live with it.
 

zepharus1

New member
Location
Syracuse, NY
I've had my car aligned twice and am wondering if I wound up with asymmetrical tie rod lengths as shown in the diagram emichel6888 provided above. @zepharus1, have you had any alignments done? I'm make a point of checking this measurement but I don't know if I can do to within 2.5mm accuracy as is called for. This will take some careful caliper work.
None the car did this from day 1 and now has 15k on the clock.
 

zepharus1

New member
Location
Syracuse, NY
If you switch to a softer higher profile tire you could drastically reduce the possibility, or perhaps adjust your driving style slightly.
I have experienced this effect with my car, but not often, maybe 5-6 times a year, and in every case it was just starting out (so cold tires), taking a sharp turn at low speed while accelerating. I noticed it happened more often after switching to a more aggressive tire with stiffer suspension modifications, but it can also happen with a perfectly good stock car if the conditions are right. It is very minor and nothing to be concerned about IMO, but it is a side effect of the performance aspects of this car. So you either go for a lower performance softer tire, adjust your driving style under those conditions, or just live with it.
emich you may have nailed this for me. Im in NY, Syracuse actually and our winters are legendary. When I switched to my winter tires I almost NEVER had this issue, and when I did "think" I heard/felt it it was very muted. this could be the combo of tires and lessa aggressive driving.

I think I might switch out of these Conti Sports contacts that came with the R. they are noisey to begin with, i pick up tons of road noise.
 

BTD37

Ready to race!
Location
United States
My 2019 does the same exact thing! Been doing it since day 1 and now has 12k miles. I also had issues with the passenger side rear tire rubbing the fender liner. This maybe what your hearing when riding in the back. First week I had the car I took it back to the dealer and they did an alignment. Rear passenger tire was still rubbing. They ended up trimming the fender liner and now it’s all good. However, I never addressed the left turn gripping issue. I just kind of forgot about it.
 

zepharus1

New member
Location
Syracuse, NY
My 2019 does the same exact thing! Been doing it since day 1 and now has 12k miles. I also had issues with the passenger side rear tire rubbing the fender liner. This maybe what your hearing when riding in the back. First week I had the car I took it back to the dealer and they did an alignment. Rear passenger tire was still rubbing. They ended up trimming the fender liner and now it’s all good. However, I never addressed the left turn gripping issue. I just kind of forgot about it.
Ha im cursed then as my 2019 had the exact same fender liner rub in the rear passenger also Day 1. sloppy QC on these Rs
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
You all sure this is not normal traction control applying the brakes? Every GTI I owned did this. Now that you have AWD I believe all four wheels can apply the brakes, and you can't turn it off unless you pull the ABS fuse.
 

AR11

Ready to race!
Location
CA
You all sure this is not normal traction control applying the brakes? Every GTI I owned did this. Now that you have AWD I believe all four wheels can apply the brakes, and you can't turn it off unless you pull the ABS fuse.
I don't think this is it because the symptom that OP and I are experiencing is a rumble/vibration and I imagine that the application of the brakes would cause a smoother feeling. Thanks for the suggestion though. I may still try pulling the fuse anyway in case it sheds light on anything.
 
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