Gbot's 19R 2.5VR6T Build

[Jonathan_HPA]

I'm sure there will be many comparisons between what the market has to offer whether it be a built 2.0L or DAZA 5cyl.

Frankly, trying to compare cars based on peak HP tells you very little when it comes to how that power is delivered, area under the curve, drivability, and reliability. We have a very robust FR450 and FR500 IS38 program as Gerald can attest to. North of 500HP you start to make compromises on a 4 cyl. For streetability, and daily driving, torque is king and the VR6T delivers. I would hesitate a guess that most people questioning the choice of a VRT have never had seat time in one.

All that being said, you need to ask yourself how you are going to use your car and what you want to get out of it. Our builds have always been purpose-driven and built with the end in mind as a cohesive package. Fit, finish, drivability have always been at the forefront of all our programs.

Interesting story: Just today Marcel was recounting the story of how in 2005, VW Germany flew in Dr Bernhard CEO of VW to test drive the Twin Turbo R32 we built. They shut down a stretch of the highway in Texas, we shipped our R32 there, and with the support of the state police he took the car up to 180mph for a test drive on the highway. This demo led VW to commission us to build the three R-GT twin turbo cars for Volkswagen's inaugural SEMA show the following year. That's a really good indication of the quality of our builds and how much trust VW put in us to represent their brand. Really cool story, sometimes I wish I had a hot mic on Marcel 24/7 to preserve some of the company history - in fact I'm leaning towards starting a podcast / youtube series to do this very thing lol

 

[LVGolfR]

I'm sure there will be many comparisons between what the market has to offer whether it be a built 2.0L or DAZA 5cyl.

Frankly, trying to compare cars based on peak HP tells you very little when it comes to how that power is delivered, area under the curve, drivability, and reliability. We have a very robust FR450 and FR500 IS38 program as Gerald can attest to. North of 500HP you start to make compromises on a 4 cyl. For streetability, and daily driving, torque is king and the VR6T delivers. I would hesitate a guess that most people questioning the choice of a VRT have never had seat time in one.

All that being said, you need to ask yourself how you are going to use your car and what you want to get out of it. Our builds have always been purpose-driven and built with the end in mind as a cohesive package. Fit, finish, drivability have always been at the forefront of all our programs.

Interesting story: Just today Marcel was recounting the story of how in 2005, VW Germany flew in Dr Bernhard CEO of VW to test drive the Twin Turbo R32 we built. They shut down a stretch of the highway in Texas, we shipped our R32 there, and with the support of the state police he took the car up to 180mph for a test drive on the highway. This demo led VW to commission us to build the three R-GT twin turbo cars for Volkswagen's inaugural SEMA show the following year. That's a really good indication of the quality of our builds and how much trust VW put in us to represent their brand. Really cool story, sometimes I wish I had a hot mic on Marcel 24/7 to preserve some of the company history - in fact I'm leaning towards starting a podcast / youtube series to do this very thing lol

You 100% should save the history. A weekly tech video would be great too.

 

[dcgtimk7]

Hi Jonathan I have a few questions. Did you guys teardown the 2.5t vr6? Is the 2.5t vr6 you are selling still stock bottom end? Or are you guys selling the kit with a built bottom end just be on the safe side? Also do you have the specs of the stock td04 turbo?

 

[gboticus]

Hi Jonathan I have a few questions. Did you guys teardown the 2.5t vr6? Is the 2.5t vr6 you are selling still stock bottom end? Or are you guys selling the kit with a built bottom end just be on the safe side? Also do you have the specs of the stock td04 turbo?

Their product page is now live and has some insights into the modifications and fabrication which went into building this beast https://www.hpamotorsports.com/pages/hpa-vr550t-2-5l-vr6-program

It notes crate motor program down the line, and manual support, etc. Bottom end is 100% stock and very overbuilt from factory: only the valvetrain and cams had to be touched in the long block.

 

[Jonathan_HPA]

Hi Jonathan I have a few questions. Did you guys teardown the 2.5t vr6? Is the 2.5t vr6 you are selling still stock bottom end? Or are you guys selling the kit with a built bottom end just be on the safe side? Also do you have the specs of the stock td04 turbo?

Sorry, there have been so many inquiries we are trying to compile an FAQ and answer everything in one go. We don't want to gatekeep all the information on this engine however we do have hundreds and hundreds of hours of R&D to convert this SUV engine into what it is today so a lot of the specifics we are keeping close to our chest. As Gerald said, the key points of what we have done are listed in the specifications on this page https://www.hpamotorsports.com/pages/hpa-vr550t-2-5l-vr6-program but to be honest the packaging and fitment really is just only one part of the process. We also did a lot of work to source OEM components, coolant lines, MPI and the biggest hurdle of canbus integration, and tuning.

Could we have done tubular manifold, huge turbo, standalone ecu and hit 800HP+, taken our car to a dynajet dyno for inflated marketing numbers, sure, but our approach as a tuner always has been to deliver a balanced cohesive package while also retaining OEM drivability and reliability.

If you want a 1 of 50 limited serialized MK7.5 Golf R with a true 550/550 on US pump gas, with a powerband that exceeds a Stage 2 DAZA on E85 then this is the car for you.

 

[dcgtimk7]

Sorry, there have been so many inquiries we are trying to compile an FAQ and answer everything in one go. We don't want to gatekeep all the information on this engine however we do have hundreds and hundreds of hours of R&D to convert this SUV engine into what it is today so a lot of the specifics we are keeping close to our chest. As Gerald said, the key points of what we have done are listed in the specifications on this page https://www.hpamotorsports.com/pages/hpa-vr550t-2-5l-vr6-program but to be honest the packaging and fitment really is just only one part of the process. We also did a lot of work to source OEM components, coolant lines, MPI and the biggest hurdle of canbus integration, and tuning.

Could we have done tubular manifold, huge turbo, standalone ecu and hit 800HP+, taken our car to a dynajet dyno for inflated marketing numbers, sure, but our approach as a tuner always has been to deliver a balanced cohesive package while also retaining OEM drivability and reliability.

If you want a 1 of 50 limited serialized MK7.5 Golf R with a true 550/550 on US pump gas, with a powerband that exceeds a Stage 2 DAZA on E85 then this is the car for you.

Hmm. Do you know the specs of the hybrid turbo you guys made for it? Is the hybrid turbo ball bearing? Will you guys have versions of the 2.5t vr6 with the electronic wastegate? Also why was it necessary to upgrade the cams and hpfp again? Seems like most other vw group engines with direct and port injection don't really need hpfp ugprades when they have port injection. Also have you guys looked at the port and direct injected w12 in vehicles like the bentayga?

 

[Jonathan_HPA]

Good catch, thank you. The HPFP was a mistake. I've removed the line from our landing page.

All the work with the cams and the valvetrain was to address the power delivery. The new cams are based on our TRI-flow design we developed for the 3.2 and 3.6 L
https://www.hpamotorsports.com/products/hpa-tri-flow-cams

Not sure if we want to disclose our turbo design at this time. The first 50 VR550T will be based on the DDKA. Future packages may use the DPKA when we work through our current inventory.

 

[scrllock]

Given how crazy the pricing is obviously going to be, I'm flabbergasted they're going with a hybrid vs. a decent full-frame.

 

[19birel]

This looks like a really cool package! The crate motor program and future manual gearbox support sounds especially intriguing, though I'm sure it's probably beyond my budget haha

 

[gboticus]

This looks like a really cool package! The crate motor program and future manual gearbox support sounds especially intriguing, though I'm sure it's probably beyond my budget haha

Given how crazy the pricing is obviously going to be, I'm flabbergasted they're going with a hybrid vs. a decent full-frame.

Well I can shed _SOME_ light on the whole pricing deal: It's ~40k USD. That's installed and out the door (parts, labour, all of it included). The exact price is yet to be announced but Marcel covered the approximate price and a whole hell of a lot more details in the most recent episode of the people's car podcast (https://open.spotify.com/episode/5cBhu7DV1zD2MrUQx0NCca?si=bc13c40afcfd4a2e)

As Jon mentioned earlier there's still a forthcoming Q&A video and official pricing to be released but this will at least calibrate everyone's expectations now. It is not 100k as was posted a few times (for a completely different VR6 build out program).

 

[Jonathan_HPA]

Given how crazy the pricing is obviously going to be, I'm flabbergasted they're going with a hybrid vs. a decent full-frame.

The hybrid turbo was the right choice for this package. There are different variables and considerations you need to make if you are building a production vehicle with longevity, packaging, and serviceability in mind. All that being said, we will be partnering with a local DAZA drag enthusiast Vancity Audi to showcase how our VR550T Golf R would match up to a full-blown, Stage 2+ E85 Audi RS3 drag car.

Will we play around with the engine and explore the upper limits of its potential? Sure, but that's not what we are trying to achieve with this launch of serialized production cars.

 

[scrllock]

The hybrid turbo was the right choice for this package. There are different variables and considerations you need to make if you are building a production vehicle with longevity, packaging, and serviceability in mind. All that being said, we will be partnering with a local DAZA drag enthusiast Vancity Audi to showcase how our VR550T Golf R would match up to a full-blown, Stage 2+ E85 Audi RS3 drag car.

Will we play around with the engine and explore the upper limits of its potential? Sure, but that's not what we are trying to achieve with this launch of serialized production cars.

I'm not saying that a full frame is necessary for dumb youtuber clickbait, I'm saying that I don't understand why someone would bother with a hybrid when they could be running a more efficient turbo with less drawbacks due to the extra displacement. Especially spending 40k to not get a decent Garrett/Xonarotor included.

 

[dcgtimk7]

Good catch, thank you. The HPFP was a mistake. I've removed the line from our landing page.

All the work with the cams and the valvetrain was to address the power delivery. The new cams are based on our TRI-flow design we developed for the 3.2 and 3.6 L
https://www.hpamotorsports.com/products/hpa-tri-flow-cams

Not sure if we want to disclose our turbo design at this time. The first 50 VR550T will be based on the DDKA. Future packages may use the DPKA when we work through our current inventory.

I doubt many people will be copying your turbo at this moment. I'm just saying if I'm paying 40k for engine build i'd like to know the specs of the turbo that is going in. Plus I'd expect the turbo to at least be ball bearing and have current turbo tech given the price.

 

[dcgtimk7]

The hybrid turbo was the right choice for this package. There are different variables and considerations you need to make if you are building a production vehicle with longevity, packaging, and serviceability in mind. All that being said, we will be partnering with a local DAZA drag enthusiast Vancity Audi to showcase how our VR550T Golf R would match up to a full-blown, Stage 2+ E85 Audi RS3 drag car.

Will we play around with the engine and explore the upper limits of its potential? Sure, but that's not what we are trying to achieve with this launch of serialized production cars.

Can we get a back to back dyno runs? Also will you have an e85 tune for the vr550t?

 

[Jonathan_HPA]

I'll be making a separate discussion post for the VR550T.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/hpa-vr550t-2-5l-vr6-turbo-golf-r.427563/

I don't want to derail Gerald's build thread any further.