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FMIC questions

StorableComa

Go Kart Champion
Location
Long Beach, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S
Almost all aftermarket intercoolers are bar and plate, and that’s the preferred core for several reasons.

Heat exchangers in general have a lot of dynamics to consider, you can google and read for days (doesn’t necessarily have to be Mk7 specific).
Thanks for the information. Seems I have more reading to do on the topic.
 

git_fan

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
2016 GTI
Typically I don't feed the trolls, but you're still pretty new to this forum (based on your join date), so you may just be uninformed. If you spend some time here you will find plenty of examples of Jake's R&D and find plenty of examples of issues with the ebay twintercooler.

He's constantly posting pics of his own craftsmanship in his garage workshop, working/test fitments on his own and customers/donor cars to research and develop (shocking I know...) the parts he makes and sells. There's a massive thread in the exhaust forum where he shares his knowledge.

Conversely, I'm sure you can find dozens of posts about people who buy the ebay twintercooler and have issues (most notably how the hoses don't stay on because they are too big).

To me though it doesn't seem like you are asking questions because you are interested in educating yourself about the Baun intercooler, you just want to downplay it for some reason. Like I said before, if you want a cheaper option there are plenty out there and no one is stopping you from buying something else.
Constantly showing pictures of the products that he sells to potential buyers? That doesn't seem surprising.

The Baun kit is a $200 Vibrant intercooler with some seemingly nicely welded pipes and quality hoses and clamps that is sold for $800. It seems to perform well. Is there something else?

So I point out that this vendor has a relatively expensive FMIC kit and this is a big deal, I'm trolling? Yet the vendor can routinely call competing products "crap" or "bottom of the barrel" and the vendors actions are what? I don't see why this vendor gets to speak poorly about products his competes with and when somebody (myself) brings up the high price of the Baun kit this becomes trolling?
 

git_fan

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
2016 GTI
So on the topic of ICs. Reading through this thread it looks like Tube/fin are preferred over bar/plate. Is this just for FMICs or would this logic also carry over to stock location replacements?

I'm looking at the Burger Motorsport MQB Platform Intercooler Upgrade, which is a stock IC location replacement but is Bar/Plate. I've got a '17 GSW S with no grill sensor to block a FMIC and i'm currently researching options myself by reading through the threads on the forums. Just figured since this was an active topic at the moment I'd pop in and ask.
There are a number of established brands that use T&F:
 

StorableComa

Go Kart Champion
Location
Long Beach, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S
I was just reading through the earlier parts of the thread and it seemed tube and fin was recommended as "better." I was just curious if this applies to FMIC or Stock IC location replacements. Doing a bit more reading now and checking out the charts on http://mygolfmk7.com/mk7-gti-r-intercooler-comparison/

Think I need to delve into the Golf forums a bit as I'm not sure if there is a difference between which are compatible with the 2.0 vs the 1.8T that I have. I'm relatively new to modding the 1.8T so I found the discussion around flow and A/C+ radiator to be interesting. I know on the MK6 it was popular to go FMIC and pull stock IC to fit a bigger radiator as mentioned earlier in the thread and that caught my eye also.
 

KyACRASH

Go Kart Champion
Location
Fort Walton Beach, FL
Car(s)
2015 GTI 6MT
Constantly showing pictures of the products that he sells to potential buyers? That doesn't seem surprising.

The Baun kit is a $200 Vibrant intercooler with some seemingly nicely welded pipes and quality hoses and clamps that is sold for $800. It seems to perform well. Is there something else?

So I point out that this vendor has a relatively expensive FMIC kit and this is a big deal, I'm trolling? Yet the vendor can routinely call competing products "crap" or "bottom of the barrel" and the vendors actions are what? I don't see why this vendor gets to speak poorly about products his competes with and when somebody (myself) brings up the high price of the Baun kit this becomes trolling?
I say that because I do not understand the point you're trying to make. The price point of the Baun kit is not a secret, nor are the parts that make up that kit, you're not missing anything. The reason you have a problem with it is the same reason people buy it - product transparency and to support a GTI owner/forum member instead of big name brand where you don't know anything about the product, how it fits, where it's made, etc.

You can say it's expensive and leave it at that, no arguments from anyone here including Jake probably. As far as calling other products crap, well that's his opinion I suppose, probably in poor taste for a vendor to do but at least he can back it up with reasons why.
 

swcrow

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia
This thread makes me laugh
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
It always amuses me that some topics get beat to death and become a pissing contest. 6 pages so far and everything has been covered multiple times but I'll bet it keeps going on and on.
 

Ezekiel81923

Ready to race!
Location
Royersford, PA
Car(s)
2019 Volkswagen GTI
Constantly showing pictures of the products that he sells to potential buyers? That doesn't seem surprising.

The Baun kit is a $200 Vibrant intercooler with some seemingly nicely welded pipes and quality hoses and clamps that is sold for $800. It seems to perform well. Is there something else?

So I point out that this vendor has a relatively expensive FMIC kit and this is a big deal, I'm trolling? Yet the vendor can routinely call competing products "crap" or "bottom of the barrel" and the vendors actions are what? I don't see why this vendor gets to speak poorly about products his competes with and when somebody (myself) brings up the high price of the Baun kit this becomes trolling?
So you must be even more upset that Neuspeeds FMIC runs anywhere from $830-$1,000 and only comes with silicone hoses. You do get a stencil if you go with Neuspeed though.
 

IanCH

Go Kart Newbie
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI Autobahn
Tube and fin is lighter and higher volume because it has a much higher external to internal surface area ratio. This works well with air outside and water inside because water is much more conductive than air.

With air to air bar and plate is superior. The surface area internal to external is roughly even.

Also, as I have mentioned before, higher weight is an advantage in open loop cooling which is what an intercooler does (the gas being cooled doesn't recirculate)

Anyone wants to challenge it I'm happy to go deeper... But tube and fin is not ideal, not to say it doesn't perform okay but nobody should be saying "tube and fin is a superior design"

Tube and fin is far cheaper to make, so likely a lot of marketing is behind that "tube and fin is great" sentiment.
 

StorableComa

Go Kart Champion
Location
Long Beach, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S
Tube and fin is lighter and higher volume because it has a much higher external to internal surface area ratio. This works well with air outside and water inside because water is much more conductive than air.

With air to air bar and plate is superior. The surface area internal to external is roughly even.

Also, as I have mentioned before, higher weight is an advantage in open loop cooling which is what an intercooler does (the gas being cooled doesn't recirculate)

Anyone wants to challenge it I'm happy to go deeper... But tube and fin is not ideal, not to say it doesn't perform okay but nobody should be saying "tube and fin is a superior design"

Tube and fin is far cheaper to make, so likely a lot of marketing is behind that "tube and fin is great" sentiment.
Thanks for the info. Having more weight at the front isn't a concern for me as I have a base FWD GSW, so a little more over the front might be a good thing.
 

Chogokin

Drag Racing Champion
Location
So Cal
Car(s)
GTI Sport | Audi A3
When it comes to cost...the "big brand" IC's all cost around $800 to 1k. From the other intercooler thread...they all seem to work pretty similar regardless of what you pay. There's a post in the other IC thread from George at Burger Tuning saying just get the one that's in your price range.

The ECS one looks to be at a pretty good price point. It's on sale right now for $424.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...er-kit-for-oem-charge-pipes/023624ecs01-01kt/

Here is their test data for their IC.

http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f...7_Front_Mount_Intercooler_Testing_Results.pdf
 

IanCH

Go Kart Newbie
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI Autobahn
Separately I want to address the "China" issue some people seem to throw out - not specifically calling anyone out.

The Vibrant 12810 IC is made in China

The Majesty IC is made in China

Likely every core on the market, save Wagner and maybe some other tube and fin models, are in fact made in China.

The manufacturing country does not matter, the quality of the part and factory it comes from matters. China is, for many things, the best in the world as hard goods manufacturing outside of the ultra high end. Also note that for many manufacturing processes China is the only country that actually does this stuff. Bar and plate IC core and end tank casting appears to be one of those categories.

Tube and fin radiator manufacturing has a long history in Britain - so you do still see some of that done there, its more of a skilled trade than a scaled manufacturing process.

Some of my knowledge may be a bit outdated, I knew more first hand stuff about this a decade ago.
 
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